This must be one of those "FRIENDS AND FAMILY" games, because there can't be more than 100 people in the stands.
Light crowd in JAX tonight for Gator Hoops vs. Mercer
- Thread starter GordonGecko
- Start date
we just made SIX free throws in a row, wow...when was the last time in years this team did that?
We finally have a bunch of bigs that clean on the glass on offensive and defensive boards, good guards and depth. This team looks like it actually has a capable roster of making the tournament, we have a nice combo all around to mix and match. I like how this team looks, also very active hands on defense and good with taking away the basketball and running...
We finally have a bunch of bigs that clean on the glass on offensive and defensive boards, good guards and depth. This team looks like it actually has a capable roster of making the tournament, we have a nice combo all around to mix and match. I like how this team looks, also very active hands on defense and good with taking away the basketball and running...
Gators M-Basketball @GatorsMBK 47m47 minutes agoKeVaughn Allen has a new career high in assists tonight with
Gators M-Basketball @GatorsMBK 30m30 minutes ago
Eric Hester knocks down a free throw for the first points of hiscareer!
0 replies 9 retweets 30 likes
Gators M-Basketball @GatorsMBK 29m29 minutes ago
Gorjok Gak joins the list as well!
0 replies 4 retweets 17 likes
well we play Duke in a few weeks and a lot of good non conference teams, also playing all these neutral games will help for any tournament play while the O Dome is being refurbished... I still just don't understand how we had a many million dollar project to take seats OUT of an already small arena...
Allen took the point a bit. I think he was the assist leader. Chioza played well. Hill was Hill.
Great. I've been waiting all off-season for the return of MJ "Dr. Hoops" Williamson. I eagerly anticipate another season of selective statistical citations in advance of your bizarre and petty grudge against a 20-year-old.
Bless your little heart. I said Hill was Hill. And he was.
He ran the point and had two assists and two turnovers. That is Hill being Hill. In case you were wondering, measuring assists and turnovers for a point guard are not "selective statistics." That is kinda like passing stats for a QB. Oh and Hill was 1-6 shooting and 0-4 from 3 point line. Are those stats relevant for a point guard, or are they too "selective" for you too? To his credit, he seems to have cured his FT problems. He was 4-6 there, compared to a career of being barely over 50%. Are FTs relevant to a PG stats?
But, to your point, as I wrote in the other thread, I should be more critical of White for depending on Hill so much. But White is apparently beginning to see Hill's limitations and is playing him less. For example, Allen ran a lot of PG and his stats read; 5 assists and 4 TO. That is not great, but it is better than 2-2. Especially on the assist side. Chiozza had 2 assist and zero turnovers. I am a big Chiozza fans an wish he played most minutes at PG.
Kasey Hill is who he is. Never been a fan of his game and I'm still not. It is what it is. For some reason I keep hoping he would improve.
As far as selectivity, I was referring to the fact that you rush to post his poor statistics, but do not post his good ones. For instance, you did not post that he was 5-6 from the field in his first game. Selective, see?
As far as White playing him less, he's played 30 and 28 minutes so far this year after averaging 23 last year.
Hill definitely has his limitations. My point has always been that he is a flawed player on a team full of them. They all have things they do well and things they do not. For instance, Chiozza is more steady, but he does not push the pace and does not put pressure on the defense. Hill shot like 80 more free throws than Chiozza last year (Hill was third on the team in FTA), despite playing the same minutes.
Whining about every Hill turnover and missed shot, in my opinion reflects a lack of understanding about the team's limitations and White's very difficult job in getting as much positive as possible out of these players while keeping their negatives under control.
Well, you know, that was because I was posting about THIS game. Or did that somehow escape you?
That is exactly what I have been saying. Yet for some reason, when I post that, you give me crap for it.
A PG that goes one for six from the field, zero for four from three point line and only has 2 assists and as many turnovers as assists is not "whining." It is calling bad play.
Like another poster said, I always hope Hill can get better. And he has at the FT line. Good for him. I hope that continues. But he is still a terrible shooter, both at the rim and from the field. And he often has as many turnovers as he has assists. That is not a good combination for a PG.
I'm hoping we see the Hill that showed up during the SECT last year. I will take that Hill all day!
Funny how the games you choose to post stats are limited to his bad ones. He had plenty of good/decent lines last year, and in fact had one in game 1. His stats were basically a wash with Chiozza last year. They played identical minutes. Hill scored more and shot better. Chiozza was half a rebound better at 2.8 and a full assist better 4.3 to 3.3. Both averaged 2 turnovers. Advanced statistics give Hill a slight advantage, but basically it's a wash. Neither was very good last year, and everyone saying we need better PG play is correct.
The reason why Hill plays is that the team needs to play fast to get easy baskets, because they are a bad shooting team, and they struggle to get their own shots in the half court. Hill is also good at getting to the line, because he attacks the basket, while Chiozza does not. He was third on the team in FTA, behind Egbunu and DFS. He shot 132 while Chiozza shot 59.
Hill has been a bad free throw shooter, but forcing the other team into committing fouls is a very positive outcome. First of all, a one-point trip (Hill shot .50) is not a terrible outcome for a team that shoots as bad as the Gators. Also, you are putting their bigs closer to foul trouble, and you are putting them closer to the bonus and the double bonus.
I give you crap, because I take issue with your constantly singling him out for issues afflicting the entire team.
Now, please feel free to respond to that very measured, reasonable analysis with a generalized dismissal, perhaps preceded by an old-timey aphorism (i.e. Good Golly!).
I would also like to see this Hill show up every day. Aggressive but not crazy. Above all, quit shooting from the perimeter and get into the paint. Early on, he's still looking kind of erratic, but I don't think you can tell that much from these early season walkovers. I hate to see him 0-4 from three.
- From FloridaGators.com -- PG Kasey Hill 6-1 175 Sr
Overview
- He has 3 career 10-assist games and 3 games with at least 8 assists and 1 turnover or fewer.
- Especially dangerous in transition and open-floor situations, Hill is an outstanding athlete with the ability to play above the rim (can dunk at 6-1).
- Ranked in the top 10 in the SEC in assist-to-turnover ratio and assists as a freshman.
- Posted his first career 10-assist game in the Sweet 16 vs. UCLA. He joins Magic Johnson, Jason Kidd and Keith Gatlin as the only freshmen in NCAA Tournament history with 10+ assists in a Sweet 16 game.
- 2013 McDonald’s All-American.
- Scored 18 points off the bench in each of Florida’s SEC Tournament games, the most by a Gator off the bench in an SEC Tournament game since Kenyan Weaks scored 18 in a game during the 2000 tournament.
- Hit four straight free throws in the closing minutes at Ole Miss to stave off a Rebels rally bid. Also helped limit SEC leading scorer Stefan Moody, who finished with a 3-for-10 shooting night from 3-point range and six turnovers.
- Co-led the Gators with 13 points in the win vs. Saint Joseph’s.
- Posted eight assists with just one turnover against Oklahoma State, the third game of his career with an 8/1 or better assist-to-turnover ratio.
- And he played with a broken nose (?) while wearing a face shield, during the season.
- Led the Gators in minutes played (30.3), assists (4.5) and assist-to-turnover ratio (2.1) and ranked fourth in the SEC in assists and sixth in assist-to-turnover ratio.
So while Kasey is maybe not a Tauren Green quality PG, he's also not chopped liver....
He works hard and he plays a lot of minutes. He stays academically eligible.
He's never had off the court issues. He's an excellent Gator!
So maybe he deserves a little bit of a break from the fans. I'm glad that they have Chiozza and Allen to also play some PG, but I'm not throwing Kasey under the bus, and neither should any other Gator fans....
I second Insta's post. To this point, you would have to say that Hill has been a disappointment. But he has had some real good moments as a Gator. He helped get us to a final 4 his freshman year, and he was not just along for the ride. There were parts of that tournament run when he was our best offensive player. He plays hard on defense and didn't cause trouble when White benched him last year.
I would also point out that Pat Young took as much crap on these boards in his sophomore and junior years as Hill has. Like Young, maybe Hill will put it together in his senior year. We need him to. He is an NBA athlete, probably one of the three or four fastest guys in the league with the ball. If he is playing well, he is capable of getting everybody easy shots,
I would also point out that Pat Young took as much crap on these boards in his sophomore and junior years as Hill has. Like Young, maybe Hill will put it together in his senior year. We need him to. He is an NBA athlete, probably one of the three or four fastest guys in the league with the ball. If he is playing well, he is capable of getting everybody easy shots,
I will take 4.3 assist over 3.3 assists any day from a point guard. Especially when the 2016 assist to TO ratio was well over 2 for Chiozza and well under 2 for Hill.
I will agree he does get to the line better than Chiozza. Yet when he does slash to the basket for an easy lay-up and foul, he often misses the layup. And then he is often no good at the line. At least he was last year. That made him a liability, especially at times when FT shooting is critical. Now, if his improved FT shooting is permanent, then his ability to get to the basket and get fouled can be an asset.
If he can't make them, especially at clutch time, it does not matter how many he shoots. Hell, was was only marginally better than Egbunu at FT shooting last year. Because of that, he often rode the pine in the final minutes of close games, as White could not count on his FT shooting.
Is this reasoned enough for you, or are you still going to whine about my critique?
You just post the same stuff over and over and over.
Yes free throws matter, even if you miss them, because to shoot free throws, the other team has to commit fouls, which is bad for them, good for us. Foul trouble and the bonus are big deals in college basketball. You are correct that Hill can be a liability late in games.
All your nattering about missed layups, etc... continues to ignore the point that Chiozza shot worse than Hill did last year! How you can continue to complain about Hill's shooting, and then endorse Chiozza, who shoots worse, as an answer just baffles me. Hill's shooting better than Chiozza this year too by the way, even with an 0-6 clunker sitting out there.
As far as their assist to turnovers, etc..., we're talking 3-2 vs. 4-2. Neither one of them is exactly Magic Johnson.
Anyway, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on whether Chiozza represents a marked upgrade over Hill. You obviously think yes, and I obviously think that you don't know what in hell you're talking about. I think Chiozza is a good backup pg. And if we had a team of playmakers, he'd be a solid guy to run it. But I think our offensive limitations mean we're going to have to tolerate a little more risk taking from our pg.
Yet you never have a cogent observation why they are wrong. Just the same things reasons why you like Hill. That is fine. We do not have to agree.
To wit
The two have different styles of offense. Chiozza is an outside shooter and shot from the outside a lot better than Hill. You ARE smart enough to understand that Chris's three point percentage is far, far better than Hill's three point percentage? If so then you conveniently seem to ignore that. Not sure why.
It is more important for a PG shoot well from the outside, and dish assists, and not turn the ball over, than to be a slasher. But if you think Hill should be in the game because he can drive to the basket, miss an open layup and then miss the FTs, then bully for you.
Chiozza was almost always the PG down the stretch in a tight game. Why? He does not turn the ball over, is far, far better that the FT line and is more likely to dish an assist.
You like Hill at the point, even thought you have written he is very limited. I like Chiozza at the point, because I think he is a LOT less limited. He is a better offensive weapon than Hill, does not turn the ball over as much as Hill, and is better at dishing assists than Hill. In short, all the things a coach wants a PG to do.
We have different views. That is fine.
If my posting about Hill, or the basketball team offends you so much, certainly feel free to exercise restraint and ignore it.
"The two have different styles of offense. Chiozza is an outside shooter and shot from the outside a lot better than Hill. You ARE smart enough to understand that Chris's three point percentage is far, far better than Hill's three point percentage?"
Three point percentage? How about shooting percentage? You're the one crying about Hill's shooting all the time. You ARE smart enough to understand that they factor three point percentage into shooting percentage? Hill has scored more than Chiozza, and he has shot better.
"Chiozza was almost always the PG down the stretch in a tight game."
In the last 13 games we played, we played 9 close ones (within 8 points). If you check the play by play (I tried and failed to link to them) for Ole Miss, UGA, LSU, aTm and GW, you will see Hill on the floor at the end of each. I do think Chiozza closed out Bama, USC and Arky, where he was our best player.
So Hill was on the floor at the end of at least five of them. I didn't see his name after 2 minutes of the OSU game, but Hill was our best player in that game. I know from your previous posts that you like the mathematical analysis, so 5 out of 9 does not = "almost always."
That's fine. I like Chiozza too. I just don't think the player I've seen so far is the answer for the Gators' offense, but maybe he will improve. I'd like to see both of them play better, because the team is so good athletically, we can probably do something if we find some easy points. Really this whole thing has become more of an exercise in pushing back against your shoddily supported opinions, which are nonetheless presented as categorical fact.
Three point percentage? How about shooting percentage? You're the one crying about Hill's shooting all the time. You ARE smart enough to understand that they factor three point percentage into shooting percentage? Hill has scored more than Chiozza, and he has shot better.
"Chiozza was almost always the PG down the stretch in a tight game."
In the last 13 games we played, we played 9 close ones (within 8 points). If you check the play by play (I tried and failed to link to them) for Ole Miss, UGA, LSU, aTm and GW, you will see Hill on the floor at the end of each. I do think Chiozza closed out Bama, USC and Arky, where he was our best player.
So Hill was on the floor at the end of at least five of them. I didn't see his name after 2 minutes of the OSU game, but Hill was our best player in that game. I know from your previous posts that you like the mathematical analysis, so 5 out of 9 does not = "almost always."
That's fine. I like Chiozza too. I just don't think the player I've seen so far is the answer for the Gators' offense, but maybe he will improve. I'd like to see both of them play better, because the team is so good athletically, we can probably do something if we find some easy points. Really this whole thing has become more of an exercise in pushing back against your shoddily supported opinions, which are nonetheless presented as categorical fact.
We seem to be talking past each other a lot. You prefer Hill at point. I prefer Chiozza at point.
We do not have to agree about it. Let's move on.
We do not have to agree about it. Let's move on.
How about both Hill and Chiozza are average PGs? Because that is what they are. I was expecting much more from Hill because of how highly recruited he was.
In the final 2 minutes of a game this season, SF/SG Barry should be the one with the ball. (FT 85%)
As far as PG goes, Hester might end up being better than both/either of the other 2 PG's. As the best All-Around player as a guard, Allen gets my vote for now.
PG Kasey Hill 6-1 175 Sr *****
PG Chris Chiozza 6-0 176 Jr ****
SG/PG KeVaughn Allen 6-2 183 So ****
PG Eric Hester 6-3 167 Fr ****
Each one of them is a little different, and each has a different skill set to work with.
Coach White will use them all at times, putting the hot hand or the guy with the correct skill set vs the opposition on the floor at any given time. Nobody is the 'best' on every single night.
In their last game, all 12 players had points and played hard. I'd love to see all 12 of them get at least a few minutes in every game if possible, with the 5 hottest hands getting the majority of playing time in any given game. A TEAM working in that kind of unselfish manner can win a lot of games, and very likely some championships too.
As far as PG goes, Hester might end up being better than both/either of the other 2 PG's. As the best All-Around player as a guard, Allen gets my vote for now.
PG Kasey Hill 6-1 175 Sr *****
PG Chris Chiozza 6-0 176 Jr ****
SG/PG KeVaughn Allen 6-2 183 So ****
PG Eric Hester 6-3 167 Fr ****
Each one of them is a little different, and each has a different skill set to work with.
Coach White will use them all at times, putting the hot hand or the guy with the correct skill set vs the opposition on the floor at any given time. Nobody is the 'best' on every single night.
In their last game, all 12 players had points and played hard. I'd love to see all 12 of them get at least a few minutes in every game if possible, with the 5 hottest hands getting the majority of playing time in any given game. A TEAM working in that kind of unselfish manner can win a lot of games, and very likely some championships too.
For me, it's become much more about pointing out all the demonstrable falsehoods and inconsistent reasoning that riddle your posts. I'll try to keep it under control moving forward.
Yep. That is probably why I am harder on him.
But I DO think that in a traditional PG role, Chiozza is better than Hill. And by that I mean he is better at assists, better at avoiding TOs, better at the FT line when you need you PG handling the ball and getting fouled, and is a better outside shooter.
But I acknowledge that the mileage from other people might vary
Bless your little heart. You can hold your breath, tear out your hair and cry all day if you like. You and I are done.
The past is the past. Last season was a coaching transition year to go with that.
What they have done so far in just 2 games this season is not necessarily what they will do over an entire season, but here are the 1st two games. As I've said, they each have different skill sets, and the numbers and percentages will likely change over the course of a season.
Hill - 56 min.- FG 5/11, 3Pt 0/4, FT 7/10, RB 6, Ast 6, TO 3, Stl 2, Pts 17
FG 45.5%, 3Pt 0%, FT 70%, 3.3 Min per Pt.
Chiozza - 37 min. - FG 3/9, 3Pt 1/4, FT 3/5, RB 3, Ast 6, TO 0, Stl 3, Pts 10
FG 33%, 3Pt 25%, FT 60%, 3.7 Min per Pt
Allen - 55 min - FG 5/20, 3Pt 2/11, FT 7/7, RB 5, Ast 7, TO 5, Stl 4, Blk 2, Pts 19
FG 25%, 3Pt 18.2%, FT 100%, 2.9 Min per Pt
What they have done so far in just 2 games this season is not necessarily what they will do over an entire season, but here are the 1st two games. As I've said, they each have different skill sets, and the numbers and percentages will likely change over the course of a season.
Hill - 56 min.- FG 5/11, 3Pt 0/4, FT 7/10, RB 6, Ast 6, TO 3, Stl 2, Pts 17
FG 45.5%, 3Pt 0%, FT 70%, 3.3 Min per Pt.
Chiozza - 37 min. - FG 3/9, 3Pt 1/4, FT 3/5, RB 3, Ast 6, TO 0, Stl 3, Pts 10
FG 33%, 3Pt 25%, FT 60%, 3.7 Min per Pt
Allen - 55 min - FG 5/20, 3Pt 2/11, FT 7/7, RB 5, Ast 7, TO 5, Stl 4, Blk 2, Pts 19
FG 25%, 3Pt 18.2%, FT 100%, 2.9 Min per Pt
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This can't be right. MJ said White was cutting Hill's minutes. OK. Sorry, that one got away from me. Now I'll cut it out.
SG KeVaughn Allen and C John Egbunu have been named to the Coaches Preseason All SEC Team.
B-Ball LOI's are in for the 2017 Class:
SF DeAundrae Ballard 6-6 195 **** - Atlanta, Ga - ESPN 65/100
"Ballard is a high major wing that is a versatile scorer who is capable of big numbers and has excellent upside."
SF/PF Chase Johnson 6-8 205 **** - Huntington, WVa
"He's a young and blossoming forward with notable upside because he combines athleticism, a foundation of skills, and a good nose for the ball."
B-Ball LOI's are in for the 2017 Class:
SF DeAundrae Ballard 6-6 195 **** - Atlanta, Ga - ESPN 65/100
"Ballard is a high major wing that is a versatile scorer who is capable of big numbers and has excellent upside."
SF/PF Chase Johnson 6-8 205 **** - Huntington, WVa
"He's a young and blossoming forward with notable upside because he combines athleticism, a foundation of skills, and a good nose for the ball."
Alexander went to UK. That hurts. These guys look promising though. I hope Egbunu and Allen are on the postseason All-SEC team. If so, we might really have something working.
I find it interesting to read prolonged back-forths about this sport.
If anyone in basketball was as good at making field goals as they claim, they'd suit up as a kicker.
What a fraud of a sport.
If anyone in basketball was as good at making field goals as they claim, they'd suit up as a kicker.
What a fraud of a sport.
Both Hill and Chiozza would make pretty lousy kickers as far as fg%. Although their percentages may have been competitive the last few years (pre-Eddie).
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