LDR Out for USCjr Game

[oozie7]

My opinion? You play to win the next game.



I think this is that you treat it as wrong way to think about it. And quite frankly, you being a former college football player, I am a bit surprised that you advocate it. What kind of message does it send to the rest of the team when a coach does not maximize the chances to win this week. Absent injury concerns, a coach should ALWAYS do that. ALWAYS.

I think your flaw is that you treat it as almost a certainty that we'd be worse off with one of the younger guys. There's nothing at all to show that's the case. Like I said we're trending toward 100 in offensive ranking and we've only faced one defense in the top 50. I find it hard to believe any of them are worse than that. For context, LDR's QBR of 42 is/was worse than every QB that have played here in the past 5 years. The only QB who had a worse QBR in their time starting was Driskel in 13' when he played 3 games. So if having the best chance to win is the goal, why are they still playing? Literally the only thing anyone points to in support of them is that their competitors are inexperienced. Well isn't it an indictment on them that they're performing so poorly despite their experience?

And my view lines up with what I've always seen. From HS to college the coaches always tell you...if the younger guy is even comparable to you they're playing him. Why? Because they get him for 3-4 more years. That's how it is so you have to leave no doubt about who is the better player if you're the upperclassmen. Do you feel LDR or Appleby have left no doubt that what's on the bench isn't better? I don't.

 

[MJWilliamson]

I think your flaw is in assuming we'd be worst off with one of the younger guys.

You seem to also, given you commentt about putting up with short term pain for long term gain/

There's nothing at all to show that's the case.

None at all. Until one of the two freshmen play, we have almost no evidence about their performance

I find it hard to believe any of them are worse than that.

For context a lot of people found it hard to believe all those teams that lost Saturday could lose.

For context, LDR's QBR of 42 is/was worse than every QB that have played here in the past 5 years. The only QB who had a worse QBR in their time starting was Driskel in 13' when he played 3 games.

LDR is no longer the QB

 

[oozie7]

You seem to also, given you commentt about putting up with short term pain for long term gain/



None at all. Until one of the two freshmen play, we have almost no evidence about their performance



For context a lot of people found it hard to believe all those teams that lost Saturday could lose.



LDR is no longer the QB

No I don't believe there would be a bunch of short term pain, other people do though. For the sake of argument I'm conceding that point and saying even if there was short-term pain it would be worth it to me to find a long-term QB. But no, based on the performance of the QB's to date I don't think the freshmen are gonna put up drastically worse numbers.

And great...LDR isn't the QB anymore according to our coaches he outperformed the guy that's now starting, so what does that say about him? The obvious point is that people ONLY support the current guys because of their 'experience' which they think leads to more wins now even though they are putting up terrible performances across the board. That doesn't make any logical sense. If your goal is to 'win now' you don't keep playing underperforming players in the name of experience, you try something else. By continuing to play underperformers you're doing the exact opposite of trying to win, you're being content with shit performances and hoping it works out because experience bro!

 

[46885]

one of these QB's better not be awful as the ones we have seen the last 7 years or im gonna fuc*ing scream

 

[instaGATOR]

I note that you couldn't refute what I said. In 2006 an undertalented offensive and very talented defensive squad was max coached to a title. A similar team in 2016 is being adequately coached to a mid tier bowl. The difference is Urban Meyer. And it doesn't matter how many emojis you post, that reality won't change.

And I note that you're as clueless of the facts as usual, while you try to cherry pick a response that fits your own pedestrian opinions. Fine with me, you are entitled to your own opinions, and welcome to them.

2006 Under Talented Offense consisted of:

QB Chris Leak Sr
QB Tim Tebow FR

RB DeShawn Wynn rsSr
HB Billy Latsko rsSr
HB Eric Rutledge Jr
RB Marcus Manson rsSo
RB Kestahn Moore So
RB/KR Brandon James Fr
RB Mon Williams Fr

WR Dallas Baker rsSr
WR Jemalle Cornelius rsSr
WR Kenneth Tookes rsSr
WR Andre Caldwell rsJr
WR Louis Murphy So
WR David Nelson rsFr
WR Cade Holliday rsFr
WR Percy Harvin Fr
WR Riley Cooper Fr
WR Jarred Fayson Fr

TE Tate Casey Jr
TE Cornelius Ingram rsSo

Yep, not a bit of offensive talent there at all....

---

 

[oozie7]

one of these QB's better not be awful as the ones we have seen the last 7 years or im gonna fuc*ing scream

They very well could be worse but that's not even the point I'm arguing. We KNOW the guys that are playing now are bad so it makes no sense to keep playing them. Especially because they're bad with all this experience under their belt and supposed command of the playbook. It's flawed logic. It's basically this:

- Employee A: regularly shows up to work late, never finishes projects on time, takes extra long lunch breaks, might be stealing from the company.

- Employee B: TBD and could be worse, but could also take your company to new heights.

So what does a smart manager do? Stick with Employee A because someone else they could hire could potentially be worse? Or do they fire employee A and try to find someone better? It ain't complicated. The people wanting the status quo are basically arguing that employee A should stay because the company is still making money. There's no correlation. All is well!! We're 7-2 in spite of our QB's.

 

[instaGATOR]

All is well!! We're 7-2 in spite of our QB's.

Exactly my opinion all along. In Spite Of, not because of...

 

[MJWilliamson]

No I don't believe there would be a bunch of short term pain, other people do though. For the sake of argument I'm conceding that point and saying even if there was short-term pain it would be worth it to me to find a long-term QB. But no, based on the performance of the QB's to date I don't think the freshmen are gonna put up drastically worse numbers.

I guess proving the old adage that the back up QB is always the most popular QB?

..LDR isn't the QB anymore according to our coaches he outperformed the guy that's now starting, so what does that say about him? !

Actually, it says more about the coaches. While I did not watch the Arkansas game, reading about it here and other place also made me wonder why he was not replaced.

 

[oozie7]

Well speaking for myself only it's not an issue of just blindly wanting the backup QB. From the get go my opinion was that we could start LDR or Appleby but against these cupcakes we should get one of the freshman some PT to groom them. Maybe 1-2 series a game and give them more and more rope as the season went on. I was fine with LDR and Appleby playing but because they've been so bad (mainly LDR) I wouldn't have an issue benching them outright. Especially because we're not asking our QB's to do much as is.

 

[Michi-Gator]

I guess proving the old adage that the back up QB is always the most popular QB?





Actually, it says more about the coaches. While I did not watch the Arkansas game, reading about it here and other place also made me wonder why he was not replaced.

Mac said LDR would start in place of Grier??? Is Mac really this bad as a judge of talent or does he want a game-manager, know the offense type?

And if he thought LDR was better than Grier, I sure hope he had better jusgement with the guys he recruited.

 

[Dannygator1989]

Mac said LDR would start in place of Grier??? Is Mac really this bad as a judge of talent or does he want a game-manager, know the offense type?

And if he thought LDR was better than Grier, I sure hope he had better jusgement with the guys he recruited.

You know, it's possible that other factors had an impact on preferring LDR over Grier.

 

[Michi-Gator]

You know, it's possible that other factors had an impact on preferring LDR over Grier.

Certainly. But I am not sure what factor would lead someone to prefer LDR over any breathing human being not named Treon

 

[oozie7]

Probably stylistic differences.

LDR at least from a preparation standpoint is what you want. He studies hard, knows the playbook inside out, is all football all the time, coaches son who gets the game, etc. Coaches love that type even if they can't play because in a lot of ways they see themselves in those players (remember a lot of coaches failed playing before going to coaching.) Whereas Grier is the dude who doesn't study that hard, parties, ad libs on the field and throws balls where he's not supposed to but gets away with it because of talent, etc. Coaches don't like those types at all because they can do everything they're taught not to do and still succeed because of talent. They have less control with those types. Didn't Spurrier used to go ape chit on Rex for the same reason? Most coaches prefer the 'safe' choice over the gunslinger. That's probably what it was.

 

[MJWilliamson]

I thought LDR was on a good trajectory before getting hurt.

 

[Michi-Gator]

I thought LDR was on a good trajectory before getting hurt.

If the goal is to go 9-3 he probably was

 

[Dannygator1989]

If the goal is to go 9-3 he probably was

Well we may very well have finished 9-3 if we didn't have to cancel a game.

 

[oozie7]

I thought LDR was on a good trajectory before getting hurt.

Thought he was uneven. Good against Umass, great against UK, and poor against NT where he should have been picked off 3-4 times. And in all those games his limitations were glaring even when he played well.

 

[MJWilliamson]

Thought he was uneven. Good against Umass, great against UK, and poor against NT where he should have been picked off 3-4 times. And in all those games his limitations were glaring even when he played well.

Like I said, a good trajectory.

 

[instaGATOR]

Probably stylistic differences.

LDR at least from a preparation standpoint is what you want. He studies hard, knows the playbook inside out, is all football all the time, coaches son who gets the game, etc. Coaches love that type even if they can't play because in a lot of ways they see themselves in those players (remember a lot of coaches failed playing before going to coaching.) Whereas Grier is the dude who doesn't study that hard, parties, ad libs on the field and throws balls where he's not supposed to but gets away with it because of talent, etc. Coaches don't like those types at all because they can do everything they're taught not to do and still succeed because of talent. They have less control with those types. Didn't Spurrier used to go ape chit on Rex for the same reason? Most coaches prefer the 'safe' choice over the gunslinger. That's probably what it was.

Grier is a 'coaches son' and his stats and record shows he knew what he was doing at QB.
Your description of Grier would also fit: Grossman - Doug Johnson, both pretty good Gator QB's and NFL QB's, but I never liked either one of them as people. Spurrer kept the Gross-man and so lost Berlin to Miami, which came back to haunt him in a game as I recall....

It seems to me that 'most coaches' like a winner, cause that protects both their job and their reps, and so they will put up with a lot of variation in other areas if they believe they have a winner.
How LDR fits into any of that is beyond me, other than as a possible 'personal favor' circumstance...

 

[Gator Fever]

Thought he was uneven. Good against Umass, great against UK, and poor against NT where he should have been picked off 3-4 times. And in all those games his limitations were glaring even when he played well.

Yep a few people that watched that N Texas game up close said LDR was going to be in big trouble once he played a good defense that his limitations really stuck out before he got injured that game.

 

[Michi-Gator]

I thought LDR was on a good trajectory before getting hurt.

LDR had no trajectory. His skills didn't allow for it. He wasn't going to get any better, and certainly not against good defenses. The kid is not a D1 starting QB.

 

[46885]

when was the last time Florida had one

 

[instaGATOR]

LDR had no trajectory. His skills didn't allow for it. He wasn't going to get any better, and certainly not against good defenses. The kid is not a D1 starting QB.

As I said after watching the Spring game.

when was the last time Florida had one

That's open to various opinions. Tebow was for sure...

 

[46885]

and the last one that even came close lsu got rid of him pronto when we were 6-0 and still almost lost to treon the same week...

 

[LizardGrad89]

And I note that you're as clueless of the facts as usual, while you try to cherry pick a response that fits your own pedestrian opinions. Fine with me, you are entitled to your own opinions, and welcome to them.

2006 Under Talented Offense consisted of:

QB Chris Leak Sr UNDRAFTED
QB Tim Tebow FR 1st Round Draft Choice but a True frosh

RB DeShawn Wynn rsSr 7th round pick
HB Billy Latsko rsSr Undrafted
HB Eric Rutledge Jr Undrafted
RB Marcus Manson rsSo Undrafted
RB Kestahn Moore So Undrafted
RB/KR Brandon James Fr Undrafted
RB Mon Williams Fr Undrafted

WR Dallas Baker rsSr 7th Round Pick
WR Jemalle Cornelius rsSr Undrafted
WR Kenneth Tookes rsSr Undrafted
WR Andre Caldwell rsJr 3rd round pick
WR Louis Murphy So 4th round
WR David Nelson rsFr undrafted
WR Cade Holliday rsFr undrafted
WR Percy Harvin Fr 1st round pick
WR Riley Cooper Fr undrafted
WR Jarred Fayson Fr undrafted

TE Tate Casey Jr undrafted
TE Cornelius Ingram rsSo 5th round

Yep, not a bit of offensive talent there at all....

---

And I note that you're as clueless of the facts as usual, while you try to cherry pick a response that fits your own pedestrian opinions. Fine with me, you are entitled to your own opinions, and welcome to them.

2006 Under Talented Offense consisted of:

QB Chris Leak Sr
QB Tim Tebow FR

RB DeShawn Wynn rsSr
HB Billy Latsko rsSr
HB Eric Rutledge Jr
RB Marcus Manson rsSo
RB Kestahn Moore So
RB/KR Brandon James Fr
RB Mon Williams Fr

WR Dallas Baker rsSr
WR Jemalle Cornelius rsSr
WR Kenneth Tookes rsSr
WR Andre Caldwell rsJr
WR Louis Murphy So
WR David Nelson rsFr
WR Cade Holliday rsFr
WR Percy Harvin Fr
WR Riley Cooper Fr
WR Jarred Fayson Fr

TE Tate Casey Jr
TE Cornelius Ingram rsSo

Yep, not a bit of offensive talent there at all....

---

Two first rounders that were true freshmen and didn't really heavily impact 2006, a 3rd rounder, a 4th rounder, 2 5th rounders, and FIFTEEN drafted in the 7th round or undrafted.

I notice you left off the offensive line, which had a total of 2 7th round picks out of the entire lineup.

The reality is Urban Meyer took an undertalented offense and with great coaching got enough out of them to win a title. That was my point, and I thank you for PROVING IT.

 

[instaGATOR]

You are basing you argument on the NFL draft status, while mine is on the college players in college. Not all college players are NFL players, just like not all HS players are college players. And btw, I don't G-a-S about the NFL.
(see Peyton vs Danny)

Yeah Lizzy, and coach Mc is what now, being the only coach in SEC 2 Divisions history to go to back to back SEC-C games, with the injuries and young players that he's had to deal with?

 

[LizardGrad89]

You are basing you argument on the NFL draft status, while mine is on the college players in college. Not all college players are NFL players, just like not all HS players are college players. And btw, I don't G-a-S about the NFL.
(see Peyton vs Danny)

Yeah Lizzy, and coach Mc is what now, being the only coach in SEC 2 Divisions history to go to back to back SEC-C games, with the injuries and young players that he's had to deal with?

There is no amount of spin you can make, or positions you can take, that will turn 2006 into anything other than an undertalented offense with tremendous coaching.

 

[instaGATOR]

Then you are welcome to YOUR opinion about that, while I'll just stick with mine.

 

[LizardGrad89]

Then you are welcome to YOUR opinion about that, while I'll just stick with mine.

You can believe what you like, It won't change the facts I have given you.