Hospital’s Employees Suspended for Not Getting COVID19 Vaccine

[gator1776]

Houston, Texas
178 employees suspended

Curious to see what you guys think. Mandatory vaccination as a requirement to work in a hospital it’s not a new thing in American medicine. Several hospitals require you have the influenza vaccine if you want to work at their hospital. Does an independent employer have a right to set the terms and conditions required to work for them, including mandatory vaccination?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/06/08/houston-hospital-workers-suspended-vaccine/%3foutputType=amp

 

[kalimgoodman]

Houston, Texas
178 employees suspended

Curious to see what you guys think. Mandatory vaccination as a requirement to work in a hospital it’s not a new thing in American medicine. Several hospitals require you have the influenza vaccine if you want to work at their hospital. Does an independent employer have a right to set the terms and conditions required to work for them, including mandatory vaccination?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/06/08/houston-hospital-workers-suspended-vaccine/%3foutputType=amp

Mandatory vaccines was never an issue until now. The power of politicizing covid I guess.

 

[gator1776]

Mandatory vaccines was never an issue until now. The power of politicizing covid I guess.

Well it was an issue, at the local level, but never an issue that garnered much attention and certainly not massive walkouts or suspensions or the coming lawsuits.

 

[BillCutting4585]

This one is tough because as a medical employee, do you have the right to not get vaccinated and get people sick?

As far as personal freedom, do what you want with your body, no person, government or business should mandate those decisions.

 

[gator1776]

This one is tough because as a medical employee, do you have the right to not get vaccinated and get people sick?

As far as personal freedom, do what you want with your body, no person, government or business should mandate those decisions.

Agreed, but as you point out, a job working for that hospital is not a personal freedom, liberty, or right. It is a privilege for which you get paid. And the hospital has the right to set the conditions and terms of your employment. You can practice your freedom and personal choice by choosing not to work there if you don’t agree with their policies.

This is a tough one.

 

[jfegaly]

Veterans everywhere say thank you anthrax vaccine. Derp

 

[gator1776]

Veterans everywhere say thank you anthrax vaccine. Derp

Not sure what the hell that has to do with this topic, you seem rather obsessed with the anthrax vaccine. I received it and I’m perfectly fine, I still argue circles around you every day

Now would you care to address the topic at hand or is it over your head?

 

[kalimgoodman]

Agreed, but as you point out, a job working for that hospital is not a personal freedom, liberty, or right. It is a privilege for what you get paid. And the hospital and has certain rights on the conditions in terms of a place on your employment. You can practice your freedom and personal choice by choosing not to work there if you don’t agree with their policies.

This is a tough one.

Well said. Is it really invading someone personal freedom if you voluntarily chose to work at a company? or go to someone's business? That would be like complainimg about a "no shirt/shoe, no service" policy.

I don't think it is but i will see what the courts say.

 

[jfegaly]

Not sure what the hell that has to do with this topic, he seem rather obsessed with the anthrax vaccine. I received it and I’m perfectly fine, I still argue circles around you every day

Now would you care to address the topic at hand or is it over your head?

You are doubling back to a topic you already lost the argument on. Abortion and conservatives caving on one if their core values. Nice try though doc mcstuffins

 

[gator1776]

You are doubling back to a topic you already lost the argument on. Abortion and conservatives caving on one if their core values. Nice try though doc mcstuffins

I accept your surrender, we treat prisoners of war with mercy, you’ll have to share a cot with @GhostOfMatchesMalone

 

[jfegaly]

I accept your surrender, we treat prisoners of war with mercy, you’ll have to share a cot with @GhostOfMatchesMalone

If only you were 85 percent better and not monolithic in your treatment strategy. So many lives are always lost on the battlefield due to pride. Too bad.

 

[BamaFan1137]

Houston, Texas
178 employees suspended

Curious to see what you guys think. Mandatory vaccination as a requirement to work in a hospital it’s not a new thing in American medicine. Several hospitals require you have the influenza vaccine if you want to work at their hospital. Does an independent employer have a right to set the terms and conditions required to work for them, including mandatory vaccination?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/06/08/houston-hospital-workers-suspended-vaccine/%3foutputType=amp

It's certainly right on the edge of a slippery slope. Both sides are slippery in my view.

Probably would be a good idea to at least wait until it has full FDA approval before it is REQUIRED of anyone.

 

[BamaFan1137]

Mandatory vaccines was never an issue until now. The power of politicizing covid I guess.

That's not entirely true. There were antivaxers prior to the pandemic.

 

[NavigatorII]

Federal law prohibits employers and others from requiring vaccination with a Covid-19 vaccine distributed under an EUA

As decision-makers at organizations decide on their Covid-19 vaccination policy, they should be careful to not let this passion lead the organization to run afoul of the law.

www.statnews.com

 

[BamaFan1137]

Well said. Is it really invading someone personal freedom if you voluntarily chose to work at a company? or go to someone's business? That would be like complainimg about a "no shirt/shoe, no service" policy.

I don't think it is but i will see what the courts say.

I don't 100% disagree.

However, what if those private employers require something from you that YOU don't agree with. Eventually the requirements may reach a point where it bothers even you...and then what?

Give them an inch....and power corrupts. Both clichès are relevant here.

But working in a hospital, I get it. It's not super unreasonable...it's getting right on the edge, however.

 

[kalimgoodman]

I don't 100% disagree.

However, what if those private employers require something from you that YOU don't agree with. Eventually the requirements may reach a point where it bothers even you...and then what?

Give them an inch....and power corrupts. Both clichès are relevant here.

But working in a hospital, I get it. It's not super unreasonable...it's getting right on the edge, however.

I understand but this isn't new. At the same time that's the point of the "right to work". Policies impact other policies.

 

[gator1776]

I don't 100% disagree.

However, what if those private employers require something from you that YOU don't agree with. Eventually the requirements may reach a point where it bothers even you...and then what?

Give them an inch....and power corrupts. Both clichès are relevant here.

But working in a hospital, I get it. It's not super unreasonable...it's getting right on the edge, however.

Yeah but you always have the freedom not to work there in the work somewhere else. It’s definitely a slippery slope. I agree with the concept that since it doesn’t have a full FDA approval they probably can’t require them at this point to take it, but once it does have full FDA approval, they can and have for influenza vaccine for example.

 

[BamaFan1137]

I understand but this isn't new. At the same time that's the point of the "right to work". Policies impact other policies.

It may not be new but it isn't static either. Power is a living entity and it never remains stock-still. If you feed it, it will grow. If you starve it, it will wither away.

It's probably better to find some balance.

 

[BamaFan1137]

Yeah but you always have the freedom not to work there in the work somewhere else. It’s definitely a slippery slope. I agree with the concept that since it doesn’t have a full FDA approval they probably can’t require them at this point to take it, but once it does have full FDA approval, they can and have for influenza vaccine for example.

Sure....but where do you draw the line?

You can't work here unless _______.

I think we can both agree that there are unacceptable (not to mention unconstitutional) words that could fill that blank.

 

[LizardGrad89]

This one is tough because as a medical employee, do you have the right to not get vaccinated and get people sick?

As far as personal freedom, do what you want with your body, no person, government or business should mandate those decisions.

So you are pro-choice? Color me surprised.

 

[kalimgoodman]

It may not be new but it isn't static either. Power is a living entity and it never remains stock-still. If you feed it, it will grow. If you starve it, it will wither away.

It's probably better to find some balance.

I'm all for policies limiting scope.

 

[fsumc]

What if the employee had COVID already? Every new study that comes out is proving that precious infection is likely better than a vaccine and adding a vaccine to your body if you’ve had the disease does not benefit the person at all.

Why is the previously infected science continuing to be ignored and left out of policies?

 

[BamaFan1137]

I'm all for policies limiting scope.

But not in this case, right?

You would support requiring some people (hell maybe all) to get the vaccine if they want to _____.

That's not limiting scope. That's limiting liability in case you are pressured/forced to do something that you don't want to do.

The problem with limiting other people's freedom is that eventually it limits your own. F their freedom...but mine? Now wait just a minute...

 

[EvilWayz]

Not sure what the hell that has to do with this topic, you seem rather obsessed with the anthrax vaccine. I received it and I’m perfectly fine, I still argue circles around you every day

Now would you care to address the topic at hand or is it over your head?

I have a theory about the Anthrax vaccine; I haven't had anything more severe than the common cold since I got it in 1995.

I believe it was brought to us via the Roswell incident.

 

[gator1776]

Sure....but where do you draw the line?

You can't work here unless _______.

I think we can both agree that there are unacceptable (not to mention unconstitutional) words that could fill that blank.

Give me an example of an unconstitutional win that’s not a direct violation of the law, I’m curious.

 

[BillCutting4585]

Agreed, but as you point out, a job working for that hospital is not a personal freedom, liberty, or right. It is a privilege for which you get paid. And the hospital has the right to set the conditions and terms of your employment. You can practice your freedom and personal choice by choosing not to work there if you don’t agree with their policies.

This is a tough one.

To add to your point, we are free to terminate unemployment at any time if we do not like our job nor like the employer.

 

[BillCutting4585]

So you are pro-choice? Color me surprised.

I’ve been pretty adamant about being pro choice on a lot of topics. For example, you choose to be a peter tickler, I couldn’t care less. However, I do not have to like more condone it.

 

[kalimgoodman]

But not in this case, right?

You would support requiring some people (hell maybe all) to get the vaccine if they want to _____.

That's not limiting scope. That's limiting liability in case you are pressured/forced to do something that you don't want to do.

The problem with limiting other people's freedom is that eventually it limits your own. F their freedom...but mine? Now wait just a minute...

Limiting what companies can ask for but they will argue the right to work. I don't think it's limiting freedom. Too many people throw that around for EVERYTHING. You're a cop, you know that freedom doesn't apply to everything.

The freedom you have is to work or not work at a company that requires vaccinations. Nobody is forcing you to get a vaccine. You can always start your own business that does not require a vaccine or go work somewhere that does not require it. That's your freedom.

 

[BamaFan1137]

Give me an example of an unconstitutional win that’s not a direct violation of the law, I’m curious.

You misunderstood me. All that are unconstitutional would also be against the law. That's what I was saying.

Where is that line drawn? It seems reasonable to require an FDA approved vaccine for hospitals. What about CVS? Lots of vulnerable people go to CVS.

What about Walmart? Have you seen the creatures that walk around that place? Many are cheating death already.

Where is the line?

 

[BamaFan1137]

Limiting what companies can ask for but they will argue the right to work. I don't think it's limiting freedom. Too many people throw that around for EVERYTHING. You're a cop, you know that freedom doesn't apply to everything.

The freedom you have is to work or not work at a company that requires vaccinations. Nobody is forcing you to get a vaccine. You can always start your own business that does not require a vaccine or go work somewhere that does not require it. That's your freedom.

That's freedom...with just a skosh of blackmail.

You're gay. We are a Christian company. You are free to work elsewhere.

Requiring people to take a vaccine is absolutely limiting freedom...even if taking the vaccine is a good idea. Hell, requiring people to wear a uniform limits freedom.

 

[BamaFan1137]

And just to be clear...

No, I don't think a company should be able to not hire you, or fire you, if you're gay.

And no, I do not think the issue of being gay and not wanting the vaccine are equivalent. But it's a reasonable comparison if we're discussing limiting freedom.

 

[G8trDad3]

What if the employee had COVID already? Every new study that comes out is proving that precious infection is likely better than a vaccine and adding a vaccine to your body if you’ve had the disease does not benefit the person at all.

Why is the previously infected science continuing to be ignored and left out of policies?

Someone previously infected could probably get tested and show antibodies. They may be allowed to work.
At our institution the vaccine is still optional but those not vaccinated are required to wear a mask.

 

[BamaFan1137]

You're a cop, you know that freedom doesn't apply to everything.

Also, was this a shot? Because it sort of felt like a shot?

I do not limit freedom. I enforce law. Even if I don't particularly agree with the law sometimes.

 

[BamaFan1137]

At our institution the vaccine is still optional but those not vaccinated are required to wear a mask.

Including those who have had covid, many of whom have the same antibodies as those who are vaccinated?

Follow the science. Never mind the science of dust masks.

 

[kalimgoodman]

That's freedom...with just a skosh of blackmail.

You're gay. We are a Christian company. You are free to work elsewhere.

Requiring people to take a vaccine is absolutely limiting freedom...even if taking the vaccine is a good idea. Hell, requiring people to wear a uniform limits freedom.

I disagree. We over use what freedom is.

Also, was this a shot? Because it sort of felt like a shot?

I do not limit freedom. I enforce law. Even if I don't particularly agree with the law sometimes.

No idea what you're talking about. Defensive for no reason. I'm saying as a cop, you know that freedom is a lot of situations isn't without consequences. I have the freedom to go outside nude, speed, etc but best believe that there will be consequences. So freedom isn't really freedom as we think.

 

[G8trDad3]

Including those who have had covid, many of whom have the same antibodies as those who are vaccinated?

Follow the science. Never mind the science of dust masks.

Sry, I meant those not immune are required to wear masks.

 

[BamaFan1137]

I disagree. We over use what freedom is.

I disagree. I think we underappreciate what freedom is because it has come too easy for us. Our ancestors, notsomuch.

I'm saying as a cop, you know that freedom is a lot of situations isn't without consequences. I have the freedom to go outside nude, speed, etc but best believe that there will be consequences. So freedom isn't really freedom as we think.

You aren't free to do those things. You can do all of those things...and eat babies for that matter, but you are not free to do them. You simply have the ability. There's a huge difference.

There's also the "reasonableness" to consider like I did with being gay vs not taking a vaccine. Not allowing people to eat babies does limit freedom to some degree...but, reasonably speaking, it's less limiting than requiring people to wear a uniform...for example.

 

[BamaFan1137]

Sry, I meant those not immune are required to wear masks.

Glad to hear it. Common sense is becoming entirely uncommon.

 

[kalimgoodman]

I disagree. I think we underappreciate what freedom is because it has come too easy for us. Our ancestors, notsomuch.




You aren't free to do those things. You can do all of those things...and eat babies for that matter, but you are not free to do them. You simply have the ability. There's a huge difference.

There's also the "reasonableness" to consider like I did with being gay vs not taking a vaccine. Not allowing people to eat babies does limit freedom to some degree...but, reasonably speaking, it's less limiting than requiring people to wear a uniform...for example.

That is apart of freedom because I believe in freedom of choice.

 

[BillCutting4585]

Someone previously infected could probably get tested and show antibodies. They may be allowed to work.
At our institution the vaccine is still optional but those not vaccinated are required to wear a mask.

How long will they be required to wear a mask? At what point does it stop?

Honest questions