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Harsh Reality...

O

oozie7

Bull Gator
May 28, 2008
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Through 2 seasons:
Muschamp: 19-8
McElwain: 18-7

Now I'll give McElwain the benefit of the doubt and include Presbyterian so he's 19-7 also but we're almost certainly losing to Bama next week so they'll have the same exact records. Now moving on...

Strength of Schedules through two years:
Muschamp: 19th, 5th
McElwain: 17th, 26th (so far)

This varies also. Our current SOS is worse on a few sites.

Record vs. opponents that finished the season ranked:
Muschamp: 4-7
McElwain: 2-6 (if you use the AP poll it's 3-6 since they have LSU ranked 25th currently)

SEC Record:
Muschamp: 3-5, 7-1
McElwain: 7-1, 6-2

Now this looks better for McElwain on the surface until you look at the records of those SEC opponents. Muschamp faced:

LSU: 13-0
Bama: 12-1
UGA: 10-3
UGA: 11-2
South Carolina: 10-2
LSU: 10-2
A&M: 10-2
South Carolina: 10-2

UGA, South Carolina, and LSU were all better then. And Vandy also had those 9 win teams under Franklin. And we had to play Bama from the West also plus A&M in Manziel's Heisman season.

Total Offensive Rankings:
Muschamp: 105th, 103rd,
McElwain: 111th, 114th (note this staff inherited an offense rated 93rd and that offense missed a game against a cupcake where they would have put up monster numbers. Based on season averages that season, our offense would have been rated somewhere around 78th with that extra game. So the offense has gotten significantly worse.)

Number of times scoring 14 or less:
Muschamp (in 4 years): 8
McElwain (in 2 years): 8

Make of it what you will...
 
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This analysis makes sense only if McElwain has a losing season, loses to Vandy and loses to a 1-AA program.
 
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Bullshit. There's zero to support that. The defense Mac inherited was better and filled with more NFL prospects than what Muschamp inherited. The offense is basically a wash. And whatever differences there are can be offset by other things like Muschamp being a first time HC while Mac has had 3 years to improve his craft before coming to UF.
 
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Muschamp left a good defense, but everything else was a mess. Plus, he damaged UF's offensive recruiting. McElwain has to overcome those headwinds. He needs to get a new OC who can jumpstart UF's offensive recruiting and find a legit QB.
 
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Uniformed_ReRe said:
Muschamp left a good defense, but everything else was a mess. Plus, he damaged UF's offensive recruiting. McElwain has to overcome those headwinds. He needs to get a new OC who can jumpstart UF's offensive recruiting and find a legit QB.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion. Like I said, there isn't anything to support it. Our offense was poorly coached under Muschamp but it didn't lack for talent. We sent numerous offensive players to the NFL who are currently starting for their teams. And guys like Kelvin Taylor, Demarcus Robinson, McGee, etc. which Mac inherited are all in the NFL now. The one common theme is shit offensive coaching.
 
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And if you say Muschamp's offense was a 'mess' then it shouldn't take much for an offensive minded coach to improve it, Muschamp didn't know shit about offense after all. Why are we moving backwards on offense then? Look at the defenses we have faced to date and it paints an even nastier picture. Muschamp was playing true freshman QB's, had multiple OC's, played against tougher defenses and his offense was still not as lifeless as Mac's current units are.
 
Uniformed_ReRe said:
One important difference: Muschamp inherited a relatively healthy program from Urban. McElwain inherited a dumpster fire.
Click to expand...
My recollection is that Muschamp was told to scrub the roster. Was that not the case? Because both the President and the AD said it in not so many words.
 
Muschamp is the worst coach that has ever roamed the UF sidelines since I've been a UF fan. That goes back to the early 80s.

It's not even close. Did you already forget the Ga Southern loss and the embarrassing losses to Mizzou and Vandy on our home field?

The East sucked when Muschamp was here and he never won it in 4 years. He's god awful.

You can complain about McElwain all you want but don't compare any UF coach to Muschamp in the last 35 years.
 
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Here's a clue for the people who still don't get it...this isn't a defense of Muschamp. If he's as bad as you all say and we're headed on the right path then we shouldn't be having similar results to the 'worst coach in UF history.' That is what the issue is.
 
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oozie7 said:
Through 2 seasons:
Muschamp: 19-8
McElwain: 18-7

Now I'll give McElwain the benefit of the doubt and include Presbyterian so he's 19-7 also but we're almost certainly losing to Bama next week so they'll have the same exact records. Now moving on...

Strength of Schedules through two years:
Muschamp: 19th, 5th
McElwain: 17th, 26th (so far)

This varies also. Our current SOS is worse on a few sites.

Record vs. opponents that finished the season ranked:
Muschamp: 4-7
McElwain: 2-6 (if you use the AP poll it's 3-6 since they have LSU ranked 25th currently)

SEC Record:
Muschamp: 3-5, 7-1
McElwain: 7-1, 6-2

Now this looks better for McElwain on the surface until you look at the records of those SEC opponents. Muschamp faced:

LSU: 13-0
Bama: 12-1
UGA: 10-3
UGA: 11-2
South Carolina: 10-2
LSU: 10-2
A&M: 10-2
South Carolina: 10-2

UGA, South Carolina, and LSU were all better then. And Vandy also had those 9 win teams under Franklin. And we had to play Bama from the West also plus A&M in Manziel's Heisman season.

Total Offensive Rankings:
Muschamp: 105th, 103rd,
McElwain: 111th, 114th (note this staff inherited an offense rated 93rd and that offense missed a game against a cupcake where they would have put up monster numbers. Based on season averages that season, our offense would have been rated somewhere around 78th with that extra game. So the offense has gotten significantly worse.)

Number of times scoring 14 or less:
Muschamp (in 4 years): 8
McElwain (in 2 years): 8

Make of it what you will...
Click to expand...

Way to long, didn't bother to read.... :D:D:D

But hey, when musclecramp had this many injuries, he went 4-8 while losing to GaSo... :cool:
 
I think they dropped the ball on back2back coaches , i hate to say that only in year 2 with Mac but thats what its looking like. Their is enough talent on offense to at least show some kind of improvement, to at least see the light at the end of the tunnel but i dont see it. This is worse than Muschamps offense and Foley went out and got Mac to fix it and its worse now. Some of these less talented teams put out a better product and they dont have guys like Callaway or Cleveland or even guys like Appleby. Yes it starts up front and we need more dept and talent there but my God this is bad, i really think we will see some of the same next year unless something big changes, i honestly believe Mac will not be the head coach after year 3. He never has any solutions , he just says oh those guys played there tails off .
 
oozie7 said:
Here's a clue for the people who still don't get it...this isn't a defense of Muschamp. If he's as bad as you all say and we're headed on the right path then we shouldn't be having similar results to the 'worst coach in UF history.' That is what the issue is.
Click to expand...
It's not as bad or similar results. Muschamp never even won the East. The East sucked when he was here as well. He had a losing record and didn't even make a bowl game in his 3rd season.

Don't compare Muschamp to any UF coach in the last 35 years. He's the worst by far.
 
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PacoGator19 said:
It's not as bad or similar results. Muschamp never even won the East. The East sucked when he was here as well. He had a losing record and didn't even make a bowl game in his 3rd season.

Don't compare Muschamp to any UF coach in the last 35 years. He's the worst by far.
Click to expand...
2012 wasnt so bad, best season we had in a while
 
PacoGator19 said:
It's not as bad or similar results. Muschamp never even won the East. The East sucked when he was here as well. He had a losing record and didn't even make a bowl game in his 3rd season.

Don't compare Muschamp to any UF coach in the last 35 years. He's the worst by far.
Click to expand...

Seriously? He has a worst record against ranked teams. His offenses are worse by every single metric out there. How is that no comparison?

And no the East didn't suck as bad, as I've already shown. Both UGA and South Carolina won 10 or 11 games each of the first two years Muschamp was here. South Carolina won 11 games 3 of Muschamp's 4 years. Murray with UGA had the most wins in the SEC by a starting QB ever. Vandy also had two of the best seasons in their history then. The facts don't support you...at all. The SEC East is now rated the 2nd worse division in the Power 5, that was not the case even two years ago. And then when you factor in the quality of the West opponent there's no comparison. Our SEC schedules were tougher then. #factsonly
 
PacoGator19 said:
It's not as bad or similar results. Muschamp never even won the East. The East sucked when he was here as well. He had a losing record and didn't even make a bowl game in his 3rd season.

Don't compare Muschamp to any UF coach in the last 35 years. He's the worst by far.
Click to expand...

Mischamps 2012 season was far superior to either of the seasons Mac has won the East. Lets face it, Mac sucks. And you'll see just how bad as all Muschamps NFL defense moves on. All of Mac's winning has been done relying on the defense Muschamp built. The offense has gotten worse. Again had Muschamp stayed with Roper and Lamar Jackson we would be MUCH farther ahead right now. And don't worry, Mac's third year will be ugly too.
 
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oozie7 said:
Seriously? He has a worst record against ranked teams. His offenses are worse by every single metric out there. How is that no comparison?

And no the East didn't suck as bad, as I've already shown. Both UGA and South Carolina won 10 or 11 games each of the first two years Muschamp was here. South Carolina won 11 games 3 of Muschamp's 4 years. Murray with UGA had the most wins in the SEC by a starting QB ever. Vandy also had two of the best seasons in their history then. The facts don't support you...at all. The SEC East is now rated the 2nd worse division in the Power 5, that was not the case even two years ago. And then when you factor in the quality of the West opponent there's no comparison. Our SEC schedules were tougher then. #factsonly
Click to expand...
There is no comparison. The dude went 4-8 at UF and missed a bowl game. He was the worst coach in the last 35 years. I'm getting even more nauseated talking about how bad he was.
 
Uniformed_ReRe said:
One important difference: Muschamp inherited a relatively healthy program from Urban. McElwain inherited a dumpster fire.
Click to expand...

Muschamp inherited more talent, but the program had some big problems as far as the culture, Janotis Jenkins being a representative example. Champ left Mac a bad roster overall but a great defense, which absolutely carried us in year 1.

I cut Mac some slack, because he inherited a bad qb situation and bad o line, but he needs to show some improvement next year. And the defense really concerns me, because it has looked fraudulent against most of the good offenses we have played. I went into last night thinking we had the by bird best defense in the country, but there were just huge gaps everywhere and their best players were running loose, just like ooz and numbers have been saying.
 
MJWilliamson said:
Yea no shit. It was a stupid, shallow comparison.
Click to expand...

K. Bring something to the table other than emotion. We can only compare what we have. What would you like to compare then? What you think will happen in the 3rd season? Please. You tend to call comparisons 'shallow' that you can't refute, I've noticed that.
 
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oozie7 said:
K. Bring something to the table other than emotion. We can only compare what we have. What would you like to compare then? What you think will happen in the 3rd season? Please. You tend to call comparisons 'shallow' that you can't refute, I've noticed that.
Click to expand...

Sorry, not sure year 3 will be 4-8 but I expect next year to be pretty damn ugly including getting our asses handed to us in the opener in Dallas
 
Hey MJ I think I'll compare Muschamp's entire 4 year tenure with the benefit of hindsight to Mac's first two years like you tried to do. That's a brilliant comparison right there.
 
oozie7 said:
K. Bring something to the table other than emotion. We can only compare what we have. What would you like to compare then? What you think will happen in the 3rd season? Please. You tend to call comparisons 'shallow' that you can't refute, I've noticed that.
Click to expand...
I just did by pointing out the obvious flaw in your rant.
 
oozie7 said:
Hey MJ I think I'll compare Muschamp's entire 4 year tenure with the benefit of hindsight to Mac's first two years like you tried to do. That's a brilliant comparison right there.
Click to expand...
By all means. But can we wait until Mac is here for four years before we do that? Or that is too complicated for you?
 
MJWilliamson said:
I just did by pointing out the obvious flaw in your rant.
Click to expand...

There is no obvious flaw. You brought things to the table like Muschamp's 4-8 season. That is hindsight that you have the benefit of knowing. So yea, it was your comparison that was stupid. Mac has only coached two seasons so the only objective comparison is to look at each coach's first two seasons to compare where we were at that point in time under two coaches. You don't know what year 3 or 4 hold for Mac but you're trying to use Muschamp's year 3 and 4 as some sort of data point. That's idiotic.
 
If next season, the Mc-Nuss combo can't get a very good QB out of these 3, (Trask-Franks-Allen), then I'll throw away my 'bandwagon' drivers licence and get on the 'fire their asses' pulpit with the neggies. (and before anyone misunderstands on purpose - neggies = negative fans) o_O

IF they even think to start LDR again, I'll burn a Gator-T-shirt on my front lawn in protest... :cool:

I tried to save then this year by calling for Trask to be the man after watching the Spring game. What you saw last night is the result of their (or his) QB decisions. :mad:

Coach Mc, IF you want to keep your job as the Gator HC, then you might want to have a real long off-season session with the ole HBC on what a Gator offense should look like. SOS can do the Fun & Gun like he did at UF, or he can Spread it out like he did at SCa. And this time, actually listen, instead of just paying some lip-service to getting his advice. o_O
Remember when he went to the 1st practice and said something like; "that #11 looks pretty good," before he was shunted aside so he wouldn't interfere with the LDR decision that had already been made? :oops:

PS

I keep on dreaming of Nuss gone or demoted, with SOS as the OC/QB's in 2017... :rolleyes:
 
oozie7 said:
There is no obvious flaw. You brought things to the table like Muschamp's 4-8 season.
Click to expand...

Of course I did. Because that was what told us he was/is a bad coach. His first two years did not tell us that at all.

That is hindsight that you have the benefit of knowing.
Click to expand...

What? Hindsight is all we have with BOTH coaches.

Try an analysis that makes sense.
 
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