Feather ruffling time: The SEC is hypocrite if

[TennesseeGator]

The point is we were probably abusing women when the Neanderthal man was around. You can't make history be politically correct and displaying a part of Dixie on the flag isn't about slavery it's about pride in the South. We're part of the union but our roots have ties to family and traditions of the South.

You don't have to tell me that. This needs to be told to Greg Swanky and his associates.

Although I can debate the south has plenty of other symbols that can be prideful to family and traditions that doesn't represent the fight to keep slavery legal but that is a whole other debate for another topic.

Back to my point, why keep the symbol going of a man who fought tooth and nail to keep segregation going? Is that too family ties and proud southern tradition?

I have more beef vs folks like George Wallace than a flag. George Wallace didnt learn from the mistakes of the old south all while 100's to thousands of memorials were around in his home state and neighboring states.

 

[TennesseeGator]

Or what's worse....let's tear down the statues that were erected decades or centuries ago, and let's erect NEW ones, and rewrite history in the process. Let's take the villains who we never honored, and re-brand them as heroes today because we want to create a history that never existed.

THIS is why I am again the constant tearing down of historical monuments. This is all about trying to re-write history. For instance, the nazis were as progressive left-wing as is conceivably possible, which is why liberals are desperately trying to re-brand them as 'right wing'.

Libs are tearing down statues of our first president, and throwing a burning flag over it. The justification? The left has re-branded Washington as a 'rich, white slave owner'.

See how this works? The problem with removing history is you then create a void that will be refilled by corrupt people who want to change history into something it never was in order to fulfill their own political goals.

"History is written by the victors" - Winston Churchill Oh they are tearing his statues down too.

Back to my point...send this statement to the SEC office.

If they disagree tell them to clean up their own yard instead of going after the poorer neighbors yard.

They know better, his ass would be chased out of Birmingham. Instead he is trying to look PC and go after poor little MS.

Alabama and Auburn both could easily survive if they mived to the ACC.

Ole Miss would be at best equal to Louisville and Mississippi State would be at best equal to U of Memphis although they would still be P5 while Memphis is G5.

It is a weak PC move by the SEC office.

 

[TennesseeGator]

But on a whole other debate, history is not removed or rewritten by the removal of a statue or flag.

I, along with you and many others are still aware of Hitler, Nazi Germany, USSSR, Saddam Hussein. Etc although their flags and statues are changed.

 

[BamaFan1137]

You don't have to tell me that. This needs to be told to Greg Swanky and his associates.

Although I can debate the south has plenty of other symbols that can be prideful to family and traditions that doesn't represent the fight to keep slavery legal but that is a whole other debate for another topic.

Back to my point, why keep the symbol going of a man who fought tooth and nail to keep segregation going? Is that too family ties and proud southern tradition?

I have more beef vs folks like George Wallace than a flag. George Wallace didnt learn from the mistakes of the old south all while 100's to thousands of memorials were around in his home state and neighboring states.

Wallace was a fake and a populist. He pretended to be whatever he thought the voters wanted him to be.

If his name was removed from ______ I wouldn't lose a moment of sleep. Pointing a gun at Alabama, or Mississippi in your example, may turn out to be an effective way to force that change but there will be a cost associated to it. An actual cost...as opposed to a perceived injustice.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

But on a whole other debate, history is not removed or rewritten by the removal of a statue or flag.

I, along with you and many others are still aware of Hitler, Nazi Germany, USSSR, Saddam Hussein. Etc although their flags and statues are changed.

Agree to disagree.

For instance, did you know that the flag for antifa is patterned after the nazi flag?

Besides, if blacks keep leaving the dem party and the dems feel as if they've lost blacks to republicans, they will immediately start calling for the removal of all historical statues celebrating black individuals. So get ready for that, because it's coming, and it will have nothing to do with history of wanting to spare offense anymore than it does now.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

Although I can debate the south has plenty of other symbols that can be prideful to family and traditions that doesn't represent the fight to keep slavery legal but that is a whole other debate for another topic.

Again, the Civil War wasn't about slavery to the South, it was about States Rights. The north stopped using slaves for one simple reason: It wasn't economically feasible to do so. And at the same time, they saw that it WAS worthwhile for the South, which had much better climate and soil for agriculture. The north saw that there was a massive economic engine growing in the South, powered by agriculture, and that the end result was going to be that the South would be the most powerful region of the country and would drive the country.

The north didn't want to see the power shift from it to the South, so they pushed to outlaw slavery. It had nothing to do with human rights and everything about the north trying to preserve itself as the seat of power for the nation. The north pushed to outlaw slavery for the entire NATION, because the north wanted to take an economic advantage away from the South. The South argued that states should have the right to decide for themselves if they did or did not want to continue to use slaves.

We see the same thing today in such hot button issues as abortion. The majority of the people in the Deep South are completely against abortion on religious grounds. But it's the NATIONAL law and it's forced upon us. States Rights say each state should have the right to decide for itself if abortions are legal or not. But that's not the case and we can thank the outcome of the Civil War for that in great part.

 

[TennesseeGator]

Agree to disagree.

For instance, did you know that the flag for antifa is patterned after the nazi flag?

Besides, if blacks keep leaving the dem party and the dems feel as if they've lost blacks to republicans, they will immediately start calling for the removal of all historical statues celebrating black individuals. So get ready for that, because it's coming, and it will have nothing to do with history of wanting to spare offense anymore than it does now.

Antifa is patterened after the many things the Nazis did.

I see your point on the removal of objects. I am in no way promoting the removal of anything other than pointing out the SEC's powers that be hypocrisy and trying to save face with a lame PC move.

Personally as I stated I don't feel oppressed or threatened by an outdated piece of fabric or an iron man that is dead. Others do and I respect their viewpoint. I also on the other hand won't be sad if said flag, statue, or street name is changed or upgraded. I will still know the history of things good or bad.

 

[TennesseeGator]

Again, the Civil War wasn't about slavery to the South, it was about States Rights. The north stopped using slaves for one simple reason: It wasn't economically feasible to do so. And at the same time, they saw that it WAS worthwhile for the South, which had much better climate and soil for agriculture. The north saw that there was a massive economic engine growing in the South, powered by agriculture, and that the end result was going to be that the South would be the most powerful region of the country and would drive the country.

The north didn't want to see the power shift from it to the South, so they pushed to outlaw slavery. It had nothing to do with human rights and everything about the north trying to preserve itself as the seat of power for the nation. The north pushed to outlaw slavery for the entire NATION, because the north wanted to take an economic advantage away from the South. The South argued that states should have the right to decide for themselves if they did or did not want to continue to use slaves.

We see the same thing today in such hot button issues as abortion. The majority of the people in the Deep South are completely against abortion on religious grounds. But it's the NATIONAL law and it's forced upon us. States Rights say each state should have the right to decide for itself if abortions are legal or not. But that's not the case and we can thank the outcome of the Civil War for that in great part.

All of that is swell and dandy about fertile soil and nice sunshine with a mix of rain but on the flip side of the coin VP of the CSA Alexander H Stephens Cornerstone speech proved that he had no feeling of the "negro" as an actual human being but instead as a farm implement or extra broom in the house.

Then later proven with the formation of the KKK by many former CSA soldiers and supporters that they had no regard for the life of a black person.

There may have been some that fought for the state rights and pride of the fertile soils but way to many fought to keep the black man from being a citizen. You can't look yourself in the mirror and deny that. Those same Southern soldiers passed the hatred down to offspring and formed things such as lynchings, Jim Crow laws, and systematic racism that still has some existence.

I by no means am saying the north or post civil war western states did things perfectly but the south had many f ups and f'ed up decades later.

 

[TennesseeGator]

Not to veer off topic but how would y'all feel if Penn State put back the statue of Joe Pa and made a new one for Jerry Sandusky?

You know...we need to be reminded so some assistant coach doesn't rape little boys and his boss doesnt harbor such a monster.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

All of that is swell and dandy about fertile soil and nice sunshine with a mix of rain but on the flip side of the coin VP of the CSA Alexander H Stephens Cornerstone speech proved that he had no feeling of the "negro" as an actual human being but instead as a farm implement or extra broom in the house.

Then later proven with the formation of the KKK by many former CSA soldiers and supporters that they had no regard for the life of a black person.

There may have been some that fought for the state rights and pride of the fertile soils but way to many fought to keep the black man from being a citizen. You can't look yourself in the mirror and deny that. Those same Southern soldiers passed the hatred down to offspring and formed things such as lynchings, Jim Crow laws, and systematic racism that still has some existence.

I by no means am saying the north or post civil war western states did things perfectly but the south had many f ups and f'ed up decades later.

My point us that when 90% of the country is against something being a law, and 10% of the country gets to force the other 90% to act as it wishes, that's a bad thing.

Do you agree or disagree? What if Washington DC wanted to legalize an activity that would bring a ton of cash to that area, but would decimate all of West Tennessee? Would it be better for Tennessee to be able to vote against this activity, or would it be better for a congressional vote to say that Tennessee had to do something that would effectively kill the economy in that state?

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

Not to veer off topic but how would y'all feel if Penn State put back the statue of Joe Pa and made a new one for Jerry Sandusky?

You know...we need to be reminded so some assistant coach doesn't rape little boys and his boss doesnt harbor such a monster.

Not really a valid comparison. The Paterno statues were put up at a time where we didn't know what he had done.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

All of that is swell and dandy about fertile soil and nice sunshine with a mix of rain but on the flip side of the coin VP of the CSA Alexander H Stephens Cornerstone speech proved that he had no feeling of the "negro" as an actual human being but instead as a farm implement or extra broom in the house.

And some free blacks felt the same way, and they owned slaves as well. The point is, it's a bit unfair to judge the morality of 1860 by the morality of 2020.

Case in point, I suspect most people in 1860 thought killing babies was a bad thing, but a century later, we would legalize it. And force the entire nation to make the practice legal. So it works both ways, unfortunately.

 

[TennesseeGator]

My point us that when 90% of the country is against something being a law, and 10% of the country gets to force the other 90% to act as it wishes, that's a bad thing.

Do you agree or disagree? What if Washington DC wanted to legalize an activity that would bring a ton of cash to that area, but would decimate all of West Tennessee? Would it be better for Tennessee to be able to vote against this activity, or would it be better for a congressional vote to say that Tennessee had to do something that would effectively kill the economy in that state?

My point us that when 90% of the country is against something being a law, and 10% of the country gets to force the other 90% to act as it wishes, that's a bad thing.

Do you agree or disagree? What if Washington DC wanted to legalize an activity that would bring a ton of cash to that area, but would decimate all of West Tennessee? Would it be better for Tennessee to be able to vote against this activity, or would it be better for a congressional vote to say that Tennessee had to do something that would effectively kill the economy in that state?

It was be very devistating to the state as well as region of TN if such happened.

However if direct mistreatment of human beings along with legalized murder of human beings were taking place I'd say lets concentrate on TN later and go kick their asses for mistreating human beings as well as the murder of humans that did nothing wrong but try to escape for freedom.

I have supported wars on foreign soils for such. I would definitely support one in my own country for such.

 

[TennesseeGator]

Not really a valid comparison. The Paterno statues were put up at a time where we didn't know what he had done.

But the Forrest statues were put up AFTER we knew what he had done.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

But the Forrest statues were put up AFTER we knew what he had done.

No idea what the 'Forrest' statues are. What are those?

 

[Sunburnt Indian]

My g-g-great paternal grandparents were forced from Morgan County, Alabama to Haskell County, Oklahoma on the "Trail Where They Cried", better known as the Trail of Tears. This came after President Jackson signed the "Indian Removal Act" of 1830.

I grew up mostly one block off Sheridan Road in Lawton. General Sheridan ordered the early morning ambush and massacre of Black Kettle and Southern Cheyenne at the Washita River as they flew U. S. and white flags.

I won't petition the Lawton City Council for a Sheridan Road name change. I won't petition the Federal Government for the removal of any Jackson memorials. I want these reminders to remain for all of us. Good and bad.

 

[TennesseeGator]

And some free blacks felt the same way, and they owned slaves as well. The point is, it's a bit unfair to judge the morality of 1860 by the morality of 2020.

Free blacks, Native Americans, Asian immigrants, or whoever owned slaves and thought that the "negro" was no value to human life are in the same boat. Any who shared the viewpoints of A.H. Stephens or similar. Every last one of them are villains and not hero's.

Not sure what abortion has to do with this topic. Many fought to keep slavery legal and they proved such by keeping black people as lesser citizens and with lesser rights years, decades, and centuries after.

This has nothing to do with political parties or abortions. It has to do with such as humam values.

I don't fret the regular farm boy from rural Arkansas who never saw a slave less long owned one for joining up with his cousions to fight off the invading Yanks. I see it dumb to honor with memorials for those who thought a slave was basically no human, nothing but animals who were to work the land for their own profit. Those same individuals who later lynched people for nothing but being black. Honestly I have very little problem with General Lee vs other true convicts who thought as stated above.

 

[TennesseeGator]

My g-g-great paternal grandparents were forced from Morgan County, Alabama to Haskell County, Oklahoma on the "Trail Where They Cried", better known as the Trail of Tears. This came after President Jackson signed the "Indian Removal Act" of 1830.

I grew up mostly one block off Sheridan Road in Lawton. General Sheridan ordered the early morning ambush and massacre of Black Kettle and Southern Cheyenne at the Washita River as they flew U. S. and white flags.

I won't petition the Lawton City Council for a Sheridan Road name change. I won't petition the Federal Government for the removal of any Jackson memorials. I want these reminders to remain for all of us. Good and bad.

I won't petition for such either but I will bring attention to a hyprocrite who goes after the poor neighbor for something worse in their own front yard.

Basically my point. Swanky...why go after Mississippi but protect Alabama?

 

[TennesseeGator]

No idea what the 'Forrest' statues are. What are those?

https://tnstateparks.com/parks/nathan-bedford-forrest

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

It was be very devistating to the state as well as region of TN if such happened.

However if direct mistreatment of human beings along with legalized murder of human beings were taking place I'd say lets concentrate on TN later and go kick their asses for mistreating human beings as well as the murder of humans that did nothing wrong but try to escape for freedom.

I have supported wars on foreign soils for such. I would definitely support one in my own country for such.

Well see let's look at abortion: Half the country knows its murder, but the half that set the laws thinks its healthcare.

What's worse, what if there was push to legalize something that you felt was a 'direct mistreatment of human beings along with legalized murder of human beings', while those pushing it were characterizing it as being a wonderfully just thing that would benefit us all?

The problem with this country is that the values of the left and values of the right are on two different planets right now. And they are only growing further apart. 20 years ago it was unthinkable to destroy a statue of Washington and throw a burning American flag over it. Now the left is celebrating it happening.

Where will we be in 20 more years if the left's values continue to swirl down the toilet AND if they are allowed to continue to set laws for the NATION that reflect their values?

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

But the Forrest statues were put up AFTER we knew what he had done.

And we're back to judging 1860 morality based on 2020 morality. Slippery slope.

 

[BamaFan1137]

There may have been some that fought for the state rights and pride of the fertile soils but way to many fought to keep the black man from being a citizen. You can't look yourself in the mirror and deny that.

I'd say the VAST majority of foot soldiers absolutely fought for their states rather than the oppression of black people. Less than 2% owned slaves...they had no vested interests in slavery.

You can make the case that those who are most commonly honored with statues were slave owners and were more motivated by the continuation of slavery but not the average grunt.

 

[TennesseeGator]

I'd say the VAST majority of foot soldiers absolutely fought for their states rather than the oppression of black people. Less than 2% owned slaves...they had no vested interests in slavery.

You can make the case that those who are most commonly honored with statues were slave owners and were more motivated by the continuation of slavery but not the average grunt.

That's it. The "heros" honored are not the foot soldiers from the Smokey/Ozark Mountains who probably never saw a piece of cotton until the war, the swampers who hunted for their own meals from the Everglades or Louisiana swamps, the fella who grew up in a shack who helped his father blacksmith in a rural Texas location.

I dont see the Chris Daniels State Park or the Thomas Smith warrior statue. The ones who were misled thinking that the government who already controlled the land and laws was coming in to invade to control the land and laws

It's Nathan Bedford Forrest, Alexander H Stephens, Jefferson Davis types that are so honorably honored.

 

[BamaFan1137]

That's it. The "heros" honored are not the foot soldiers from the Smokey/Ozark Mountains who probably never saw a piece of cotton until the war, the swampers who hunted for their own meals from the Everglades or Louisiana swamps, the fella who grew up in a shack who helped his father blacksmith in a rural Texas location.

I dont see the Chris Daniels State Park or the Thomas Smith warrior statue. The ones who were misled thinking that the government who already controlled the land and laws was coming in to invade to control the land and laws

It's Nathan Bedford Forrest, Alexander H Stephens, Jefferson Davis types that are so honorably honored.

Fair enough.

You think BLM would leave the memorials to the common foot soldiers alone? Me either.

 

[sadgator]

I dont hang the 1995 got our ass handed to us by Nebraska flag on the wall.

sadgator has a 1995 Fiesta Bowl coffee mug in the back corner of his cup cabinet. It is never drank from....

 

[TennesseeGator]

sadgator has a 1995 Fiesta Bowl coffee mug in the back corner of his cup cabinet. It is never drank from....

Tennessee Gator has a Buffalo Wild Wings Bowl shirt he bought prematurely not knowing we'd get our arses handed to us by Michigan. It sits in the bottom of a drawer, not sure of it will ever turn into a shop rag or not. I guess I keep it as a reminder of history, bad history is as important as good history.

On a football note, too bad Jeremy Foley removed all Ron Zook reminders, had he left them in place he would have never made the Muschamp mistake.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

Free blacks, Native Americans, Asian immigrants, or whoever owned slaves and thought that the "negro" was no value to human life are in the same boat. Any who shared the viewpoints of A.H. Stephens or similar. Every last one of them are villains and not hero's.

Not sure what abortion has to do with this topic. Many fought to keep slavery legal and they proved such by keeping black people as lesser citizens and with lesser rights years, decades, and centuries after.

This has nothing to do with political parties or abortions. It has to do with such as humam values..

Half the country wanted to make slavery legal, half the country didn't.

Half the country wants abortion to be legal, half the country doesn't.

Abortion IS this topic, it's the exact same thing as slavery in the context you are discussing.

Many are fighting to keep abortion legal and are trying to paint abortion victims as not even being human beings.

Oh wait...kinda like the dems did with slaves, right?

But because of the precedent set with the Civil War, the entire country now has to deal with abortions, when half the country thinks its murder.

Forcing the entire country to live by the same laws works some of the time, and some of the time it does not. Certain laws should be national, and all citizens should be bound by them. But not all. See abortions, see gay marriage and other social issues that half the country disapproves of, but is bound by anyway.