What's the scoop on Callaway and Treon

[oozie7]

This sounds like someone who would like to hide behind 'the letter of the law' instead of being held accountable by finding justice for the victim/s. (BTW, OJ agrees with you, not me)

So yeah, let's put the totally unbiased ooozzziee in charge of telling us all who is right and who wasn't raped.... (to bad it wasn't your butt that was getting abused)...

And tell us, are you his father, or maybe his mother?

PS -- You're obsessed with my opinions, and/or with proving that TH is actually 'Mother Theresa' in drag....

Or you're a dumbass and have no idea how these things work. That seems to be a pattern.

 

[Dannygator1989]

As always, Insta is smarter than everyone else because his opinion is the superior opinion.

 

[oozie7]

If you want to get an idea into how student conduct committees work, all you need to do is read up on the 'Mattress Girl.' These committees completely ignore the rule of law and any due process. Unsurprisingly, your dumb ass supports them.

 

[oozie7]

I definitely think it's a great idea to have charges that should be handled by law enforcement instead be handled by a group of students who don't even have to abide by law...says no one smart ever.

 

[MJWilliamson]

I definitely think it's a great idea to have charges that should be handled by law enforcement instead be handled by a group of students who don't even have to abide by law...says no one smart ever.

It is very instructive that no charges have been filed

 

[oozie7]

It is very instructive that no charges have been filed

Think so too. But my comments are independent on this case. The idea in general is just retarded. I can't believe anybody would support em.

 

[RentechCEO]

It is very instructive that no charges have been filed

Where have I heard that before? Hmmm.

 

[Gator22222]

Where have I heard that before? Hmmm.

The police can't charge anyone with a crime unless a victim comes forward and seeks to press charges.

I can see how a college girl might be reluctant to do that after what happened in Tallahassee. The student body and fans would most likely support the athlete and vilify the alleged victim.

The anonymity going through the student conduct council offers would be appealing.

 

[bradleygator]

I definitely think it's a great idea to have charges that should be handled by law enforcement instead be handled by a group of students who don't even have to abide by law...says no one smart ever.

Right. Student conduct committees should be ruling on who snuck alcohol into a dorm or who broke curfew, not whether rape was committed.

 

[Gator22222]

I definitely think it's a great idea to have charges that should be handled by law enforcement instead be handled by a group of students who don't even have to abide by law...says no one smart ever.

The student conduct council at UF is appointed by the Vice President of Student Affairs and is composed of students, faculty and staff. There are seven members on a hearing panel. At least one must be a faculty or staff member and the majority must be students. The Director of Student Conduct and Conflict Resolution or designee will serve as an administrative liaison and advisor to the hearing panel.

The hearing panel is basically a jury. They hear the case and then submit a report and recommendation to the Dean of Students. The Dean of Students may adopt, reject or modify the Board’s findings and recommendations. Ultimately, a finding of guilty or not guilty is given by the Dean of Students.

http://regulations.ufl.edu/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/40431.pdf

Since the process is not a legal proceeding, they do not have to abide by legal procedures. That can be good or bad. There are many occasions when an obviously guilty individual is found not guilty by the legal system. John Gotti was able to walk free time after time even though he would later admit he was guilty of many of the charges. On the other hand, an overzealous administrator could decide to use this as an opportunity to send a message or further an agenda.

In all likelihood, a student who has retained competent council, and Huntley Johnson is indeed very good, will be able to successfully navigate the system.

 

[MJWilliamson]

Where have I heard that before? Hmmm.

Bless your little heart. Are you really, really that much of an idiot? ( some questions answer them self)

The difference is that in the case of your rapist, no investigation ever happened. At least not for about a year. So this is a bit different.

But you know that.

You are just being your usual ass.

 

[MJWilliamson]

The police can't charge anyone with a crime unless a victim comes forward and seeks to press charges.

I can see how a college girl might be reluctant to do that after what happened in Tallahassee. The student body and fans would most likely support the athlete and vilify the alleged victim.

The anonymity going through the student conduct council offers would be appealing.

Boom.

 

[Gator Fever]

Those University hearings are a complete joke and they can find someone basically "guilty" just because they feel like it or its the PC thing to do.

 

[instaGATOR]

The Dean of Students may adopt, reject or modify the Board’s findings and recommendations. Ultimately, a finding of guilty or not guilty is given by the Dean of Students.

And the UF Dean of Students can be sued or fired, IF he deserves either, based on his own decision making process...

 

[Gator Fever]

The Dean of Students may adopt, reject or modify the Board’s findings and recommendations. Ultimately, a finding of guilty or not guilty is given by the Dean of Students.

And the UF Dean of Students can be sued or fired, IF he deserves either, based on his own decision making process...

Yep we see how few get let go when they do the PC police ruling and ignore there is no good evidence against someone. Some of these rulings are truly crazy looking at some articles on it.

 

[ocalaman]

So without going back and reading 6 pages of all this back & forth BS, what is the answer to the original question? What is the status of the 2 players?

 

[instaGATOR]

Per Mc at the Tampa Gator Club, status-duo for now....

 

[Gator22222]

So without going back and reading 6 pages of all this back & forth BS, what is the answer to the original question? What is the status of the 2 players?

Basically, this is the situation......

"All we know is that no charges have been filed, no school officials are commenting, the players are still enrolled but not on campus, Callaway has an attorney and that attorney has told us that Callaway has been brought before the student conduct committee.

Given this information it seems likely that the two players were not suspended by McElwain, they were suspended by the Dean of Students. The Dean would not suspend them for grades, failed drug tests or breaking team rules. A suspension would only happen if they were seen as a threat to the welfare or physical safety of a student, students or the general public. I think they have been accused of something very serious."

If you want to know how I came to that conclusion, my (fairly long) post explaining why this is really the only reasonable conclusion is on the previous page.

 

[Gator22222]

Yep we see how few get let go when they do the PC police ruling and ignore there is no good evidence against someone. Some of these rulings are truly crazy looking at some articles on it.

I have not seen any of these stories coming from UF. I agree that unreasonable results have come from student conduct hearings at other schools, but that in no way means that it happens every time or at every school.

It is just as easy to find cases of judges handing down crazy sentences or ignoring the law. There is no guarantee you won't run up against unreasonable people no matter which way you go.

Pre-judging the proceedings based simply on what someone somewhere else once did is painting with a very broad brush.

 

[Gator22222]

The Dean of Students may adopt, reject or modify the Board’s findings and recommendations. Ultimately, a finding of guilty or not guilty is given by the Dean of Students.

And the UF Dean of Students can be sued or fired, IF he deserves either, based on his own decision making process...

I suppose anyone could be sued or fired if they deserved either.

It appeared as though you wanted those who are guilty to face consequences, now you appear to be eager to see anyone who hands down a guilty verdict punished for doing so.

Not sure where you are going with this.

I am not going to assume that the proceedings will result in an unjust finding. I have no reason to believe that will happen. Simply because some other council at some other school was unjust in it's findings does not mean that will happen here. Odds are, since none of the records can be made public, we will never know whether any finding was just or not.

 

[MJWilliamson]

This is the whole title ix drama.

No charge. No LEO investigation.

We are just making sure we comply with title ix.

It will be over soon.

 

[93nole99]

This is the whole title ix drama.

No charge. No LEO investigation.

We are just making sure we comply with title ix.

It will be over soon.

What will be over? No offense intended, but what are the players accused of?

 

[MJWilliamson]

Haven't you been reading?

 

[oozie7]

I have not seen any of these stories coming from UF. I agree that unreasonable results have come from student conduct hearings at other schools, but that in no way means that it happens every time or at every school.

It is just as easy to find cases of judges handing down crazy sentences or ignoring the law. There is no guarantee you won't run up against unreasonable people no matter which way you go.

Pre-judging the proceedings based simply on what someone somewhere else once did is painting with a very broad brush.

It doesn't matter whether UF has been great handling these or not (supposedly). Regardless, its ridiculous to have student and faculty handling potential criminal charges, especially when there is no due process or use of law at all when making decisions. That's what law enforcement is for. And because of the PC nature of these committees, I highly doubt UF has handled them well anyway. The only ones we know about are the ones involving popular students (like football players) ain't no telling how many lesser known students have been screwed over in these things.

 

[oozie7]

I have not seen any of these stories coming from UF. I agree that unreasonable results have come from student conduct hearings at other schools, but that in no way means that it happens every time or at every school.

It is just as easy to find cases of judges handing down crazy sentences or ignoring the law. There is no guarantee you won't run up against unreasonable people no matter which way you go.

Pre-judging the proceedings based simply on what someone somewhere else once did is painting with a very broad brush.

It doesn't matter whether UF has been great handling these or not (supposedly). Regardless, its ridiculous to have student and faculty handling potential criminal charges, especially when there is no due process or use of law at all when making decisions. That's what law enforcement is for. And because of the PC nature of these committees, I highly doubt UF has handled them well anyway. The only ones we know about are the ones involving popular students (like football players) ain't no telling how many lesser known students have been screwed over in these things.

 

[93nole99]

Haven't you been reading?

Yes. And no place describes the allegations. The most I've seen was in January when Huntley Johnson said his office conducted an "investigation" and didn't think there was a basis for alleging Calloway violated the student conduct code. Not a stunner coming from Calloway's lawyer. Still no facts. If anyone knows what the allegations are or what the reason for the suspensions are, I've not seen anything. It's why I asked.

 

[MJWilliamson]

It is a CoC issue involving Title IX

 

[TNole902]

In all likelihood, a student who has retained competent council, and Huntley Johnson is indeed very good, will be able to successfully navigate the system.

Huntley Johnson is an opportunist who rarely sees the inside of a courtroom. He plea bargains for escape hatches for athletes for as much as anything to save the face of the University. The University, of course, supports him and pushes cases his way, because he makes the cases go away, as soon as possible, and keeps the University out of the limelight as much as possible. Whether this is in the best interests of the athlete is not important.

 

[MJWilliamson]

Huntley Johnson is an opportunist who rarely sees the inside of a courtroom. He plea bargains for escape hatches for athletes for as much as anything to save the face of the University. The University, of course, supports him and pushes cases his way, because he makes the cases go away, as soon as possible, and keeps the University out of the limelight as much as possible.

This is aka as a good lawyer

Whether this is in the best interests of the athlete is not important.

You are going to need to support this assertion.

 

[instaGATOR]

I suppose anyone could be sued or fired if they deserved either.

It appeared as though you wanted those who are guilty to face consequences, now you appear to be eager to see anyone who hands down a guilty verdict punished for doing so.

Not sure where you are going with this.

I am not going to assume that the proceedings will result in an unjust finding. I have no reason to believe that will happen. Simply because some other council at some other school was unjust in it's findings does not mean that will happen here. Odds are, since none of the records can be made public, we will never know whether any finding was just or not.

My response was to what I saw as a slap at the 'UF's system' in general.
I just pointed out that IF someone did an injustice with intent, then that could be addressed by either being fired or sued or both. I therefore tend to trust the UF system to eventually get it right, though they do seem to be taking a rather long time to get a-round-2-it..... (I have a spare 'round-2-it' for sale if anyone's interested)

Where I always stand is: Punish the guilty, but Free the innocent.
Hopefully they will be successful in getting the determination correct.

 

[Gator22222]

It doesn't matter whether UF has been great handling these or not (supposedly). Regardless, its ridiculous to have student and faculty handling potential criminal charges, especially when there is no due process or use of law at all when making decisions. That's what law enforcement is for. And because of the PC nature of these committees, I highly doubt UF has handled them well anyway. The only ones we know about are the ones involving popular students (like football players) ain't no telling how many lesser known students have been screwed over in these things.

They are not handling potentially criminal charges. They are handling a non-criminal student complaint against a fellow student. The student conduct council does not have any authority outside of the University and can not hear criminal complaints.

It is similar to being accused of sexual harassment at a workplace. It is not a legal matter unless the alleged victim pursues charges. The HR department does an investigation and makes a ruling based on the available evidence and the best interests of the organization. It does not involve law enforcement or require "rules of law" because it is not a legal proceeding.

I am sure that there is great variance in the quality of each HR department, but I doubt that one could accurately say that they are ALL horrible at handling these cases. I think the probability is high that the only cases to make the papers would be the ones that go horribly wrong. You can't sell ads by printing a story about how everything worked out just fine and there is nothing unusual or extraordinary.

There is nothing in life, including court cases, that is guaranteed to be fair and always get it right. It's just a consequence of the human condition.

I have no personal experience with the student conduct council at UF. However, it appears that you are making a fair number of assumptions. You state "because of the PC nature of these committees, I highly doubt UF has handled them well anyway". Please show supporting evidence that UF's student conduct council is "pc in nature" and why you doubt that they have handled cases well in the past. You also state "ain't no telling how many lesser known students have been screwed over in these things". One could also assume that there is no telling how many times things were handled in exemplary fashion as well. The point being, you are judging a process without anything to go on but stories from other people and places and a biased opinion.

I am not saying everything will take place exactly as it should and in a completely just manner. I have no idea. I am simply saying that without evidence to the contrary I see no reason why we should deem the process a failure before it even concludes. Especially since none of us have access to the finer details of the case.

In any event, none of us will ever know any of the details of the case for sure unless one of the students involved decides to make the information public.

 

[Gator22222]

My response was to what I saw as a slap at the 'UF's system' in general.
I just pointed out that IF someone did an injustice with intent, then that could be addressed by either being fired or sued or both. I therefore tend to trust the UF system to eventually get it right, though they do seem to be taking a rather long time to get a-round-2-it..... (I have a spare 'round-2-it' for sale if anyone's interested)

Where I always stand is: Punish the guilty, but Free the innocent.
Hopefully they will be successful in getting the determination correct.

I hope so too. However, it is very likely that none of us will ever know. The records of the case can not be legally made public.

However, regardless of the outcome I am willing to bet that there are those who will claim it is unjust simply because the outcome does not suit their particular team or political bias.

 

[Gator22222]

Huntley Johnson is an opportunist who rarely sees the inside of a courtroom. He plea bargains for escape hatches for athletes for as much as anything to save the face of the University. The University, of course, supports him and pushes cases his way, because he makes the cases go away, as soon as possible, and keeps the University out of the limelight as much as possible. Whether this is in the best interests of the athlete is not important.

Interesting way to view the world. Is it that you think anyone you deem to be guilty is undeserving of legal representation or is it that anyone who is accused is undeserving?

For instance, if FSU had an athlete, let's just say a QB, that was accused of rape and brought before the FSU student conduct council would his lawyer also be an opportunist finding an escape hatch to suit the universities best interests?

 

[MJWilliamson]

They are not handling potentially criminal charges. They are handling a non-criminal student complaint against a fellow student. The student conduct council does not have any authority outside of the University and can not hear criminal complaints.

It is similar to being accused of sexual harassment at a workplace. It is not a legal matter unless the alleged victim pursues charges. The HR department does an investigation and makes a ruling based on the available evidence and the best interests of the organization. It does not involve law enforcement or require "rules of law" because it is not a legal proceedings.

I am sure that there is great variance in the quality of each HR department, but I doubt that one could accurately say that they are ALL horrible at handling these cases. I think the probability is high that the only cases to make the papers would be the ones that go horribly wrong. You can't sell ads by printing a story about how everything worked out just fine and there is nothing unusual or extraordinary.

There is nothing in life, including court cases, that is guaranteed to be fair and always get it right. It's just a consequence of the human condition.

I have no personal experience with the student conduct council at UF. However, it appears that you are making a fair number of assumptions. You state "because of the PC nature of these committees, I highly doubt UF has handled them well anyway". Please show supporting evidence that UF's student conduct council is "pc in nature" and why you doubt that they have handled cases well in the past. You also state "ain't no telling how many lesser known students have been screwed over in these things". One could also assume that there is no telling how many times things were handled in exemplary fashion as well. The point being, you are judging a process without anything to go on but stories from other people and places and a biased opinion.

I am not saying everything will take place exactly as it should and in a completely just manner. I have no idea. I am simply saying that without evidence to the contrary I see no reason why we should deem the process a failure before it even concludes. Especially since none of us have access to the fine details of the case.

In any event, none of us will ever know any of the details of the case for sure unless one of the students involved decides to make the information public.

Remarkably well put.

One example of the UF SCC doing things right was in the Harris case.

 

[Nolec]

I hope so too. However, it is very likely that none of us will ever know. The records of the case can not be legally made public.

However, regardless of the outcome I am willing to bet that there are those who will claim it is unjust simply because the outcome does not suit their particular team or political bias.

I believe that would be a requirement of any rival fan, and I'm attempting to ramp up a huge amount of moral indignation against UF regardless of their decision. No matter the decision, as a rival, I must wail, rant and potest until red-faced at the complete travesty that has been handed down. Since there has been considerable delay in this case, I should be amply prepared to mock, belittle, and deride at great length.

 

[Gator22222]

Remarkably well put.

One example of the UF SCC doing things right was in the Harris case.

Thank you

 

[RentechCEO]

The police can't charge anyone with a crime unless a victim comes forward and seeks to press charges.

I can see how a college girl might be reluctant to do that after what happened in Tallahassee. The student body and fans would most likely support the athlete and vilify the alleged victim.

The anonymity going through the student conduct council offers would be appealing.

But some wait almost a full year to come forward after the accused has had some success. Of course a lawyer hired to defend said accused might try to shame an accuser by saying they had sex with two other men that same night.

 

[RentechCEO]

This is the whole title ix drama.

No charge. No LEO investigation.

We are just making sure we comply with title ix.

It will be over soon.

Yes and I bet I can predict the result.

 

[RentechCEO]

Bless your little heart. Are you really, really that much of an idiot? ( some questions answer them self)

The difference is that in the case of your rapist, no investigation ever happened. At least not for about a year. So this is a bit different.

But you know that.

You are just being your usual ass.

lol. I would not call someone who was never even charged a rapist. But then you are a gator.

Actually, there was an investigation immediately after the report but the accuser would not press charges or cooperate either with the police or the university until later when said accused became famous. But then you knew that too.

 

[RentechCEO]

The student conduct council at UF is appointed by the Vice President of Student Affairs and is composed of students, faculty and staff. There are seven members on a hearing panel. At least one must be a faculty or staff member and the majority must be students. The Director of Student Conduct and Conflict Resolution or designee will serve as an administrative liaison and advisor to the hearing panel.

The hearing panel is basically a jury. They hear the case and then submit a report and recommendation to the Dean of Students. The Dean of Students may adopt, reject or modify the Board’s findings and recommendations. Ultimately, a finding of guilty or not guilty is given by the Dean of Students.

http://regulations.ufl.edu/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/40431.pdf

Since the process is not a legal proceeding, they do not have to abide by legal procedures. That can be good or bad. There are many occasions when an obviously guilty individual is found not guilty by the legal system. John Gotti was able to walk free time after time even though he would later admit he was guilty of many of the charges. On the other hand, an overzealous administrator could decide to use this as an opportunity to send a message or further an agenda.

In all likelihood, a student who has retained competent council, and Huntley Johnson is indeed very good, will be able to successfully navigate the system.

It's called a kangaroo court.