I do not understand our strategy. We have 15 guys committed and only 2-3 of them are 4 stars and none are 5 stars. That would be our lowest average per player in decades if that doesn't change. I sure hope the coaches know what they're doing but I really don't understand why we're not getting commitments from higher rated players or why we're taking so many 3 stars.
So, ummm that new staff recruiting bump that always happens...
- Thread starter BringBackBonner
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I do not understand our strategy. We have 15 guys committed and only 2-3 of them are 4 stars and none are 5 stars. That would be our lowest average per player in decades if that doesn't change. I sure hope the coaches know what they're doing but I really don't understand why we're not getting commitments from higher rated players or why we're taking so many 3 stars.
My guess would be some combination of the players being underrated, the coaches feeling like they really need numbers and/or they're planning on screwing a bunch of these kids over once we get better commitments.
This I didn't mind at all. Take a look at his offer sheet. Its tremendous. He's not going to end up a 3 star with offers from all those big boy programs.
I wouldn't worry too much about it. We are going to sign a very good recruiting class. We will be getting 2 big time WRs soon and at some point we will be taking a highly regarded recruit from LSU as well.
I wouldn't blame top tier WRs for waiting to see our offense, I would be hesitant too.
My main point is we have to start winning battles for top in-state kids. I get Ivey and Cece, but to a player we are getting destroyed in-state
My main point is we have to start winning battles for top in-state kids. I get Ivey and Cece, but to a player we are getting destroyed in-state
If we flip Felipe Franks from LSU I would be ecstatic, not sure he's even a target though
So ask yourself this question...who is a better evaluator of talent, the coaching staff or some media guys selling subscriptions?
Not that simple. Talent evaluation to find the gems is PART of the equation. Landing the big boys is also PART of the equation. If you look at the championship teams, they include top tier talent
Yes Franks is a without a doubt a target. We are probably going to land IMO the #1 WR in the state in a few weeks. Hopefully we can keep him.
I think landing Victor would be huge, and hopefully make Franks decision to flip an easier one, as I heard Franks would like to be a Gator
Recruiting service rankings have proven to be accurate over time. 5 stars are more likely to succeed than 4's and 4's more than 3's.
But the question is is who is really doing the rating? Initially, it is the staffs of the rating services. Over time, they talk to coaches, hence the "re-rating", why some kids get more stars (upgraded), etc. So at the END of the cycle, the ratings tend to be more accurate because they have input from the people who make big money to evaluate these kids. (Some coaches even play the game of telling the media how great player x is so they get a higher rated player and it creates momentum, keeps the fan base happy, etc.) As the media gains more trust with our recruiting staff, you will see more and more stars on our recruits.
My point is, don't fall into the trap of the ratings services are the end all be all of grading a class - particularly this early. If you do, you have the cart before the horse.
I don't say especially this early that its definitive. Rankings do change as kids go to more camps, more coaches get a look at them, late bloomers blossom etc etc.
Yes even after that sometimes the ranking services miss either too high or too low on a prospect.
I acknowledge all of that. Yet.....I'm still troubled by just how many lesser rated guys we're taking while at the same time not getting commitments from the higher rated guys. Five or Six or Seven such prospects I'd understand. That's normal. Coaches like a prospect and offer him early and he commits because that's by far his best offer - happens every year. But this many????
Given that we so obviously have Early Playing Time aka the Holy Grail to sell to recruits, I'd have expected us to finally get some stud backs and receivers and OL for the first time in years. That sure seems to work for our rivals when they have early PT to offer.
I suggest waiting at least a few more weeks before jumping off the ledge. Right now the recruiting class is ranked #10 in the nation. The class is going to get better. And sure enough just like I said earlier in this thread a few guys were going to get bumps in their rankings. Sure enough what happened the other day? Some of our commitments got bumps in their rankings. It's still a long time until NSD. We haven't even started fall practice yet. Long long ways to go.
Well Paco, those plans have now changed. Looks like we still can't attract a top tier WR or ATH.We are dangerously close to entering the vicious cycle.
Overall I've been really impress with Coach Mac...bring in the staff...bring over these Juco players, keeping and getting players back in Feb...I think that Coach Mac has done it about as good as anyone could have done it...giving where the program is at right now. I was excited about the guy after I learned more about him...I was hopeful...I really like what I'm seeing out of him so far. If we get 8 wins this season I'll be happy...9 I'll be amazed! #coachmac
We've been in the vicious cycle since 2013. If it weren't for South Carolina's heroics, Foley would not have fired Muschamp. Foley would have thought Muschamp had turned the corner with our new "don't pass ever" game plan, and probably given him another ridiculous pay raise and extension. We would also have a new offensive coordinator, a 12 member 2015 signing class, and only one commitment for 2016, most likely from the number 1 punter in the nation. So believe it or not, our situation could be worse.
Now, in order to break the cycle, we're just gonna have to do more with less talent, or wait for something negative to happen with the teams that are dominating recruiting in Florida (FSU, Alabama, Auburn). Miami is trying to do the same thing, so we're basically in their shoes, just several years behind where they're at now.
Now, in order to break the cycle, we're just gonna have to do more with less talent, or wait for something negative to happen with the teams that are dominating recruiting in Florida (FSU, Alabama, Auburn). Miami is trying to do the same thing, so we're basically in their shoes, just several years behind where they're at now.
Hell I'll set the bar at 7 wins. I still think people underestimate the disaster Muschamp left here. I mean we're celebrating landing a 1-AA lineman who will very likely start for us after a few weeks on campus. Think about it...
We are not behind Miami lol, their football program is toast and will only get worse this year.
We don't have many similarities with Miami, but possibly being caught in a vicious cycle might be one. As I mentioned on the first page, our skill on offense is so bad that it would take a miracle for them to get us to even be average. It won't be their fault but that result may scare off the elite offensive recruits which leads to more bad offense which leads to more bad skill recruiting. When you look at Miami, the only city who produces comparable numbers of NFL talent every year are LA and Atlanta. They shouldn't be as bad as they are either but they got trapped in a bad cycle and have been in it for a decade now. We're working on year five basically, hopefully we have it two more seasons max. It's gonna take some time to fix what we have.
I think we have more in common with Miami than a lot of people here want to think...
1. Futility on offense
2. Coaching Instability
3. Outdated facilities
4. Hiring an unproven coach that had ho-hum level of success on the smallest of stages
5. On field embarrassments (UM brawl vs GA Southern debacle)
6. Mid-season irrelevance
7. And now, bottom barrell recruiting.
There's a reason why the top players in the class want nothing to do with UF. I think we'll be sucking hind tit along with Miami until Fisher, Saban, and Malzahn hang it up.
1. Futility on offense
2. Coaching Instability
3. Outdated facilities
4. Hiring an unproven coach that had ho-hum level of success on the smallest of stages
5. On field embarrassments (UM brawl vs GA Southern debacle)
6. Mid-season irrelevance
7. And now, bottom barrell recruiting.
There's a reason why the top players in the class want nothing to do with UF. I think we'll be sucking hind tit along with Miami until Fisher, Saban, and Malzahn hang it up.
Wonderful. The incessant harpy of optimism speaks.
1. Futility on offense. That was so Muschamp. Give Coach McElwain time to demonstrate his offense ON THE FIELD.
2. Coaching Instability. We kept Muschamp around at least one year too long. We'd have been better off if we had arrived at the same instability you mention a bit earlier.
3. Outdated facilities. Comparing our facilities with Miami's is a joke. Even in their best years their facilities sucked.
4. Hiring an unproven coach that had ho-hum level of success on the smallest of stages. McElwain has more experience than Jimbo had before he was hired by FSU. Unlike Muschamp he arrived with a resume that included success as a head coach.
5. On field embarrassments (UM brawl vs GA Southern debacle) None of which is applicable to Coach McElwain.
6. Mid-season irrelevance. Coach Mac hasn't even started his 1st season.
7. And now, bottom barrel recruiting. The new coaching staff did an outstanding job saving the recent recruiting class. Muschamp had us poised for complete disaster. Making proclamations about a recruiting class that won't be complete until Feb. of 2016 is way too premature. It's obvious Coach McElwain understands we have holes to fill on both offense and defense. He's aggressively working to address shortcomings long ignored by Muschamp.
Thats why I wanted a true 'offensive' coach or a bigger name. Mac has done some good things so far, but I am sure Binjamin Victor and the others are getting earfuls of how much Julio Jones despised playing in the Bama offense and felt under-utilized.
Since we know about your dislike of Nussmeir as the OC the most TD passes ever thrown by the starting QB in a single year at Alabama happened when Nuss was the OC at Bama (2012). McCarron threw 30 TDs in 2012 and 28 TDs in 2013. The highest QB rating in a single season in Alabama history also happened with Nussmeir as Bama's OC (2012).
So good Saban replaced him with Kiffin and he went on to Michigan to turn an already bad offense into a complete dumpster fire.
Doesn't change the fact that the most TD passes and highest QB rating in Bama history came under Nussmeir. Anybody who judges a coach just based off of a 1 year job under a lame duck coach like Hoke was I can't take seriously. Just like I feel the same way with Roper under Muschamp. Can't judge either one of those guys based off one year under bad head coaches.
I won't judge Nuss entirely by Michigan because that would be dumb buuuuuut Saban did 'nudge' him out citing he wanted to be more aggressive and creative on offense. So there's that. I guess it's offset some by the fact that McElwain will have lots of input on the offense, but I would have preferred we got someone to where we have enough confidence he'll produce without too much input from the HC. I don't want McElwain devoting too much time to that side of the ball instead of the entire team.
In the past however you yourself have stated that you want your head coach to be involved in the offense and offensive minded because it is much harder to replace and OC than a DC in football. If the head coach is an offensive minded coach then the changing of OCs isn't a big loss for continuity purposes.
I would much rather have an offensive minded head coach than a defensive minded head coach for many of these exact same reasons. I'm hoping McElwain is able to get very involved in the offense and still have plenty of time to take care of all the other things that are needed when your the head coach ala Steve Spurrier, etc
I've always said I wanted an offensive minded HC, and still do for sure. Didn't necessarily want them involved heavily in the offense though unless they're on the level of a Peterson, Kelly, Harbaugh, Rich Rod, etc. Those guys I wouldn't care if they're heavily involved. But McElwain while a good offensive mind strikes me are more of a hands off CEO type, so I'd rather him be in that role more and delegate. I do agree with you on the changing OC's though. That's why although I dislike the Nuss hire I'm not really worried about it because that's McElwain's baby, I think he'd pull the trigger quickly if Nuss isn't measuring up. And because he's involved in the offense, making a change won't be catastrophic like it was every time Muschamp made a change because the system will still be the same. Long story short, I want him involved, but not to the degree of some of those coaches I mentioned above.
I'm with Oz. I liked how Meyer left most offense up to Mullen with the occasional tweak here and there. That worked out great.
This, Nuss was removed because of a need to keep up with Auburn types. His time is past, his offense is outdated, A LOT.
I give MCE the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise, but I will say that one of the criticisms of Muschamp was that he was trying to install the 'Bama offense at a time when the best SEC offenses, including 'Bama's, were spreading people out. I came around to be pretty enthusiastic about the MCE hire, but I didn't like the Nuss hire.
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