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Who’s to Blame….

UF_GATOR_FAN

Green Machine
Apr 2, 2009
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for the current state of Florida football? While I always cheer for the team, watching the current football product, while inspiring hope for the future (stable of solid backs, Grier will progress, Johnson/Ivey/Sharpe holding down the O-line, talented secondary, etc), is light years behind where we were during the heyday of Meyer/Spurrier. And then when you compare that to our SEC brethren….well, it leaves much to be desired.

I think the obvious answer is those in charge. Muschamp destroyed this team like no outside opponent ever could have. He sent UF back to the Stone Age with his archaic offensive philosophy, and allowed our rivals to subsequently gain ground on us. The “losing” culture he established, to say nothing of his gameday and roster mismanagement, will take time to eradicate. He has, in my opinion, been one of the worst possible hires to have ever stepped foot in the Swamp.

Foley is not free from blame. His insistence on sticking with Muschamp when all could see that Mus was overmatched further delayed our rebuilding. We could be closer to contending, instead we’re still stuck in the muck with the likes of UTenn, Vandy, and grateful for wins over Kentucky.

But I think the more honest, more difficult answer is: us. We’re to blame for allowing this to have happened on our watch. What could we have done? We could have made it clear to Foley, either by not filling the stadium, by writing in to him, etc, that this was not the right fit for UF, but instead, for the most part, we “went along, to get along”. Now, there were of course people on this very board who could see what a disaster we were enabling. Board members like Michi and BONG were prescient in calling out the Muschamp hire, but we did not listen. Some of us, I think, felt as if speaking out against Muschamp meant we were not supporting the team, but I think those things can be mutually exclusive.

A lot of hand-wringing has been done over the current state of UF football, but the truth is, if you want someone to blame, look in the mirror folks—we’re all culpable.
 
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Jimbo.

The rise of Florida football coincided with the decline of FSU and UM. Spurrier never won in Tallahassee, and it wasn't until BB started coasting that UF won there.

Once BB retired and Jimbo righted the ship, Meyer quit and the rest was history. Champ started out strong but made some mistakes in choosing OCs from which he couldn't recover. A couple of dud QBs along the way sealed his fate.'

The new guy has started nearly as strong, and it remains to be seen whether he can recruit as well. Hes starting from a lower base so maybe he'll have a longer leash, i don't know.
 
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Foley for giving him an extension after 2012 which you could see was one of those years most all the lucky bounces went our way with how we won with a real good defense and a decent running game basically and nothing else out of the offense. Trying to remember if crazy Foley gave that extension prior to the beat down from Louisville in the Sugar Bowl or not.
 
Playing in the toughest conference in the Nation, UF has had a total of 7 losing seasons since 1950, and only 1 since 1980.

In my lifetime, Graves built up UF's program, then Dig Ducky sent it into a 10 year downhill spiral. Pell built it back up, then the NCAA sent it into a holding pattern, while Hall could not recover but did hold his ground until the NCAA also got him. Spurrier brought UF up to the Championships heights and did so the right way. Zook was not ready for prime time. Meyer did very well at first but could not maintain it and eventually he lost control of the team and bailed out over-stressed. Muschamp came in and brought the 'team' back under control, but could never get an offense going and eventually lost support and had to be removed.

McElwain has done everything right so far. How he does over time remains to be seen, but I am hopeful that he can get it done.

The tallycrappy criminoles and the scUM thugs of Mi-Am-I are what they are and have always been, to chickenchit to join the SEC and play a 'real' full time SoS.
Blobby Bowdown -- "We can play for more championships if we join the All Cupcake Conference." Then Mi-Am-I followed suit. They now reside in the Almost Competitive Conference doing what they do best, play a couple of tough games per year and beat their chests while running their mouths. They are both still losing ground to UCF and USF as we speak. In another 10 years they will likely be overtaken by them.

UF will continue to be what it has always been,,,
The Flagship University of Florida.
 
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Jimbo.

The rise of Florida football coincided with the decline of FSU and UM. Spurrier never won in Tallahassee, and it wasn't until BB started coasting that UF won there.

Once BB retired and Jimbo righted the ship, Meyer quit and the rest was history. Champ started out strong but made some mistakes in choosing OCs from which he couldn't recover. A couple of dud QBs along the way sealed his fate.'

The new guy has started nearly as strong, and it remains to be seen whether he can recruit as well. Hes starting from a lower base so maybe he'll have a longer leash, i don't know.












:);):(:confused::p:p:p:p:p:p:p
 
Jimbo.

The rise of Florida football coincided with the decline of FSU and UM.

Dude, Steve beat you for Florida's first National Title. Your argument sucks...and you have totally failed in every way.

As to the OP's initial statement and question, we are in freakin' game 4 after the nightmare. How 'bout just enjoying the liberation movement for at least half a season before you start dragging us back down into the mud to play some finger pointing blame game? Don't be that guy.
 
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I love these threads.

One dimensional thinking wins again because...you know...blaaargh meerr ANGRY!
 
Muschamp is the reason. Nobody from Florida nor outside of Florida wanted to come and I don't blame them. How many recruits were at the GSU game? How many of those recruits chose UF afterwards?
 
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Dude, Steve beat you for Florida's first National Title. Your argument sucks...and you have totally failed in every way.

Steve lost 8/12 to BB, and never won in Tallahassee. Steve lost in Tallahassee in 96 and needed a rematch to win the NC.

Prior to Steve, UF football had really accomplished little except for a conference title that was taken away. Its sole Heisman belonged to Steve.
 
Directly responsible: Muschamp

Ultimately responsible: Foley

OVERPAID
Will Muschamp (12)
. Position: Auburn defensive coordinator. Salary: $1.6 million. In Muschamp’s first season, the Tigers are surrendering 29.7 points and 442.7 yards per game, which means this defense is on pace to be the worst in school history. It’s three points and 44 yards per game worse than last year’s unit, which got Ellis Johnson fired – and he wasn’t the highest-paid assistant coach in the country. Muschamp is.

LINK: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/forde-...vbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQTAxNTZfMQRzZWMDc2M-

Looks like you guys can take solace in a little Karma.
 
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for the current state of Florida football? While I always cheer for the team, watching the current football product, while inspiring hope for the future (stable of solid backs, Grier will progress, Johnson/Ivey/Sharpe holding down the O-line, talented secondary, etc), is light years behind where we were during the heyday of Meyer/Spurrier. And then when you compare that to our SEC brethren….well, it leaves much to be desired.

I think the obvious answer is those in charge. Muschamp destroyed this team like no outside opponent ever could have. He sent UF back to the Stone Age with his archaic offensive philosophy, and allowed our rivals to subsequently gain ground on us. The “losing” culture he established, to say nothing of his gameday and roster mismanagement, will take time to eradicate. He has, in my opinion, been one of the worst possible hires to have ever stepped foot in the Swamp.

Foley is not free from blame. His insistence on sticking with Muschamp when all could see that Mus was overmatched further delayed our rebuilding. We could be closer to contending, instead we’re still stuck in the muck with the likes of UTenn, Vandy, and grateful for wins over Kentucky.

But I think the more honest, more difficult answer is: us. We’re to blame for allowing this to have happened on our watch. What could we have done? We could have made it clear to Foley, either by not filling the stadium, by writing in to him, etc, that this was not the right fit for UF, but instead, for the most part, we “went along, to get along”. Now, there were of course people on this very board who could see what a disaster we were enabling. Board members like Michi and BONG were prescient in calling out the Muschamp hire, but we did not listen. Some of us, I think, felt as if speaking out against Muschamp meant we were not supporting the team, but I think those things can be mutually exclusive.

A lot of hand-wringing has been done over the current state of UF football, but the truth is, if you want someone to blame, look in the mirror folks—we’re all culpable.

Meyer started it when he didn't give a rat's ass. Muschamp sealed things when he ignored the offense. We have a good to great defense so we have hope.
 
In hindsight Jeremy Foley repeatedly failed to put the dots together in a timely manner. The blissful marriage to Urban fell apart after Urban developed anal spasms. Patronizing Meyer resulted in the unnecessary waste of a season. Hiring Will Muschamp then proved to be a wasteful gamble. Retaining him an additional year after he guided our team to 8 losses cost us yet another year. As obvious as it is to us now I can't imagine any other AD doing anything different short of the flyer taken on Muschamp. One or two misconceived decision inextricably led to our current reality.
 
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for the current state of Florida football? While I always cheer for the team, watching the current football product, while inspiring hope for the future (stable of solid backs, Grier will progress, Johnson/Ivey/Sharpe holding down the O-line, talented secondary, etc), is light years behind where we were during the heyday of Meyer/Spurrier. And then when you compare that to our SEC brethren….well, it leaves much to be desired.

I think the obvious answer is those in charge. Muschamp destroyed this team like no outside opponent ever could have. He sent UF back to the Stone Age with his archaic offensive philosophy, and allowed our rivals to subsequently gain ground on us. The “losing” culture he established, to say nothing of his gameday and roster mismanagement, will take time to eradicate. He has, in my opinion, been one of the worst possible hires to have ever stepped foot in the Swamp.

Foley is not free from blame. His insistence on sticking with Muschamp when all could see that Mus was overmatched further delayed our rebuilding. We could be closer to contending, instead we’re still stuck in the muck with the likes of UTenn, Vandy, and grateful for wins over Kentucky.

But I think the more honest, more difficult answer is: us. We’re to blame for allowing this to have happened on our watch. What could we have done? We could have made it clear to Foley, either by not filling the stadium, by writing in to him, etc, that this was not the right fit for UF, but instead, for the most part, we “went along, to get along”. Now, there were of course people on this very board who could see what a disaster we were enabling. Board members like Michi and BONG were prescient in calling out the Muschamp hire, but we did not listen. Some of us, I think, felt as if speaking out against Muschamp meant we were not supporting the team, but I think those things can be mutually exclusive.

A lot of hand-wringing has been done over the current state of UF football, but the truth is, if you want someone to blame, look in the mirror folks—we’re all culpable.
If I may, it seems to me like Urban Meyer started the the deterioration. He brought in and tolerated the criminal element. The discipline was nonexistent. Team morale/discipline deteriorated precipitously. Urban recognized that he had lost control and that implosion was imminent. Thus, his "heat problems" and "retirement". Will Muschamp made some OC hiring mistakes. JMHO
 
If I may, it seems to me like Urban Meyer started the the deterioration. He brought in and tolerated the criminal element. The discipline was nonexistent. Team morale/discipline deteriorated precipitously. Urban recognized that he had lost control and that implosion was imminent. Thus, his "heat problems" and "retirement". Will Muschamp made some OC hiring mistakes. JMHO

Urban Meyer Allowed "Ballers" To "Run Amok" At Florida September 17, 2015 12:30 pm ET

LINK: http://thebiglead.com/2015/09/17/urban-meyer-allowed-ballers-to-run-amok-at-florida/

Looks like Champ had his hands full with culture change (much like Shannon when he arrived at UM). Not an easy task in and of itself, then try adding winning on the gridiron.
 
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Steve lost 8/12 to BB, and never won in Tallahassee. Steve lost in Tallahassee in 96 and needed a rematch to win the NC.

Prior to Steve, UF football had really accomplished little except for a conference title that was taken away. Its sole Heisman belonged to Steve.

SOS was 5-8-1 against the noles. Funny thing is prior to SOS the noles had really accomplished very little too. Damn, I knew Steve was good, but he brought both programs into consistent national spot light! Wow!
 
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If I may, it seems to me like Urban Meyer started the the deterioration. He brought in and tolerated the criminal element. The discipline was nonexistent. Team morale/discipline deteriorated precipitously. Urban recognized that he had lost control and that implosion was imminent. Thus, his "heat problems" and "retirement". Will Muschamp made some OC hiring mistakes. JMHO
I disagree. Read the post immediately above your's (cwesleyf).

The responsibility ultimately lies on Foley for indulging Meyer in a year of not-giving-a-rats-a$$ while collecting a massive salary. Not to mention, muschimp's best team was his 2012 team, where the best players were all Meyer recruits (Gillislee, Debose, Jordan Reed, Easley, Powell, Floyd, Hunter, Evans, Elam, Riggs, Bostic, Jenkins, and the list goes on....). I'm not saying that Meyer doesn't bear some responsibility, but the blame primarily falls on Foley and muschimp.

mushchimp is an mouth breathing neanderthal d-bag who had no business running a program like UF. However, it is nice to see him move on to the dirtiest program in the SEC and destroy them from the inside out.
 
Oh how you FSU fans hate Meyer for your decade of irrelevance

Na...don't hate him for that. He's not responsible for our decade of irrelevance...that's all on FSU. He did; however, take advantage of the situation by bringing in some amazing teams to wipe the floor with us.

While I can't stand the arrogant jerk, he's building a resume to be considered one of the GOAT coaches. No denying he knows how to coach some CFB! ...providing he can continue dodging the NCAA, of course. ;)
 
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When Muschamp came in to Florida, he had to get rid of the thug element that Meyer left him with. (See Charlie Strong at Texas) That took at least a season. IF will had made a good OC hiring decision, then things might have been different. Gator fans were so used to being elite, that I believe they weren't willing to give Muschamp enough time. Now, I think you are probably right that he probably doesn't have what it takes to win championships at this level. I also think that auburn is THE dirtiest program in college football and love what they are currently going through.
 
No OC could run a good offense under Muschamp. He's too involved in the offensive scheme and the personnel to run said scheme. He didn't just hire 3 dud OCs because of his pre-employment screening process.
 
SOS was 5-8-1 against the noles. Funny thing is prior to SOS the noles had really accomplished very little too. Damn, I knew Steve was good, but he brought both programs into consistent national spot light! Wow!

OK, I stand corrected, he lost 8 out of 14, not 8 out of 12.

but you are not too far off with your statement that FSU didn't really get on the map until Spurrier. However, FSU did had 11 and 10 wins in 79 and 80, and played for the NC in 1980, losing narrowly to Oklahoma 18-17 in the Orange Bowl. I don't think UF had ever been ranked as high as 10th at that time, and that was a decade before Spurrier. He was still coaching QBs at GT and then paying his dues at Duke as their OC back then.

FSU also was ranked top 5 from 87-91, prior to Spurrier, and continued to be ranked top 5 through the Spurrier years despite playing both Florida and Miami every year.

But give Spurrier credit. When he took over at Florida he quickly copied what BB and JJ were doing and won you your first legit conference championship.
 
The noles use yet another thread to disparage their Big Brother. Shocking.
May want to rethink that...
""A lot of hand-wringing has been done over the current state of UF football, but the truth is, if you want someone to blame, look in the mirror folks—we’re all culpable.""
 
for the current state of Florida football? While I always cheer for the team, watching the current football product, while inspiring hope for the future (stable of solid backs, Grier will progress, Johnson/Ivey/Sharpe holding down the O-line, talented secondary, etc), is light years behind where we were during the heyday of Meyer/Spurrier. And then when you compare that to our SEC brethren….well, it leaves much to be desired.

I think the obvious answer is those in charge. Muschamp destroyed this team like no outside opponent ever could have. He sent UF back to the Stone Age with his archaic offensive philosophy, and allowed our rivals to subsequently gain ground on us. The “losing” culture he established, to say nothing of his gameday and roster mismanagement, will take time to eradicate. He has, in my opinion, been one of the worst possible hires to have ever stepped foot in the Swamp.

Foley is not free from blame. His insistence on sticking with Muschamp when all could see that Mus was overmatched further delayed our rebuilding. We could be closer to contending, instead we’re still stuck in the muck with the likes of UTenn, Vandy, and grateful for wins over Kentucky.

But I think the more honest, more difficult answer is: us. We’re to blame for allowing this to have happened on our watch. What could we have done? We could have made it clear to Foley, either by not filling the stadium, by writing in to him, etc, that this was not the right fit for UF, but instead, for the most part, we “went along, to get along”. Now, there were of course people on this very board who could see what a disaster we were enabling. Board members like Michi and BONG were prescient in calling out the Muschamp hire, but we did not listen. Some of us, I think, felt as if speaking out against Muschamp meant we were not supporting the team, but I think those things can be mutually exclusive.

A lot of hand-wringing has been done over the current state of UF football, but the truth is, if you want someone to blame, look in the mirror folks—we’re all culpable.

You're spot on. Chump was a disaster. It was clear we should have moved on at least a year before we did......nevermind that he never should have been hired in the first place. The problem was that Foley was stubborn and tried desperately to dig his heels in so as not to admit how badly he screwed up in hiring Chump and then in giving Chump a big fat contract - despite the fact that nobody else was trying to hire him away - after year 2. Some of us tried to point out that Chump and Foley's stubbornness was destroying the program.

So now it is what it is. Even though we have a good coach IMO, its going to take time to rebuild. The good news is we're the flagship university smack dab in the middle of one of the biggest talent hotbeds in America. We should be significantly improved next year and back to contending to titles again starting in 2017.
 
Steve lost 8/12 to BB, and never won in Tallahassee. Steve lost in Tallahassee in 96 and needed a rematch to win the NC.

Prior to Steve, UF football had really accomplished little except for a conference title that was taken away. Its sole Heisman belonged to Steve.

You forget that fsu didn't break through until 1987......3 years after UF was crippled by the NCAA. That is not a coincidence nor is it a coincidence that miami had its great run in that time as well. I give Bowden credit for being able to ride the wave that the NCAA provided by altering the balance of power in the state. Prior to that, UF had simply dominated fsu.

Then the Bowden regime ran out of steam and Zook and later Meyer dominated in recruiting and promptly cashed in with 2 national titles and another 13 win season and another Heisman Trophy winner. Then Chump happened.
 
You forget that fsu didn't break through until 1987......3 years after UF was crippled by the NCAA. That is not a coincidence nor is it a coincidence that miami had its great run in that time as well. I give Bowden credit for being able to ride the wave that the NCAA provided by altering the balance of power in the state. Prior to that, UF had simply dominated fsu.

Then the Bowden regime ran out of steam and Zook and later Meyer dominated in recruiting and promptly cashed in with 2 national titles and another 13 win season and another Heisman Trophy winner. Then Chump happened.


That's just flat out incorrect. FSU's rise started in 1979, not 1987 and had nothing to do with UF's suspension (although FSU benefited from it years later).

1979 (11-1) #6
1980 (10-2) #5
1982 (9-3) #13

All the while Bowden was building the reputation as "King of the Road" with trips to Nebraska, Ohio State, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh and LSU on five consecutive weekends. In 1985 Bowden began an 11 year bowl streak.

RRT Disclaimer: This thread is NOT about FSU, it's about the current state of UF football. All RRT members are encouraged to stick to the topic and not respond to any further bait posts. Consider this matter handled. --RRT Senior Management.
 
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When Muschamp came in to Florida, he had to get rid of the thug element that Meyer left him with. (See Charlie Strong at Texas) That took at least a season. IF will had made a good OC hiring decision, then things might have been different. Gator fans were so used to being elite, that I believe they weren't willing to give Muschamp enough time. Now, I think you are probably right that he probably doesn't have what it takes to win championships at this level. I also think that auburn is THE dirtiest program in college football and love what they are currently going through.

Yeah......I'm not buying a word of this. Chump didn't "have to" run off a dozen players in less than one year on the job like he did. The vast majority of those were not guys who had been in trouble. Several of them were good players who UF needed....indeed 3 of them were selected in the NFL draft this past year. This whole narrative is just excuse making for Chump and his massive incompetence.

The problems ran FAR deeper than just his OC hires which were atrocious. He ignored Offense in recruiting, he insisted on a cave-man 1950's Offense that was a turn-off for top shelf playmakers making it impossible for us to recruit them. Even when we had obvious huge needs like a stud Tailback for example and were absolutely surrounded by stud backs, Chump whiffed over and over and over again. Here, I'll give you examples:

Alex Collins (Arky's star) wanted to come to UF. Chump took a lesser rated back who crapped out - quite literally - and is no longer part of the program.
Sony Michel - a 5 star back chooses to go to UGA despite the fact that UGA already had Gurley AND Chubb AND Marshall (two 5 stars and a 4 star).
Dalvin Cook bails on UF and goes to fsu late leaving UF no options for a stud back that year.
Derrick Henry grew up as a Gator fan an hour from campus and wanted to come to UF. Chump told him he ran too high and could not be a good back in the SEC and needed to switch to DE.

ALL of those were Florida boys. We couldn't get ONE of them. Then there is the gross mismanagement of the QB position which ran off the only other experienced QB's we had and which resulted in Jacoby Brissett's HS coach (at Dwyer a powerhouse program) publicly saying that Chump did not give his guy a chance and could not be trusted to keep his word.....and that HS coach was a former Gator player!

But hey.....I sincerely hope y'all hire Chump to be your head coach. I'll then be the one telling you to "be patient".
 
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That's just flat out incorrect. FSU's rise started in 1979, not 1987 and had nothing to do with UF's suspension (although FSU benefited from it years later).

1979 (11-1) #6
1980 (10-2) #5
1982 (9-3) #13

All the while Bowden was building the reputation as "King of the Road" with trips to Nebraska, Ohio State, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh and LSU on five consecutive weekends. In 1985 Bowden began an 11 year bowl streak.

fsu had 2 good years......then sunk back to mediocrity losing SIX in a row to UF in the early to mid 80's.
 
You're spot on. Chump was a disaster. It was clear we should have moved on at least a year before we did......nevermind that he never should have been hired in the first place. The problem was that Foley was stubborn and tried desperately to dig his heels in so as not to admit how badly he screwed up in hiring Chump and then in giving Chump a big fat contract - despite the fact that nobody else was trying to hire him away - after year 2. Some of us tried to point out that Chump and Foley's stubbornness was destroying the program.

Not only that, but Foley gave him an extension. Of course, Champ was trying to recruit against Jimbo, and convinced Foley that he needed to have 5 years to convince kids to come to UF instead of FSU. I guess Foley saw how successful the HCIW worked at FSU and was convinced Champ would work at UF.

Ironically, if Foley had not given Champ an extension, Champ's failures might have been clear sooner, and certainly the cost to cut him would have been less. With the money you saved, you could have hired a replacement with Power Five head coaching experience.
 
When Urban showed up he didn't run players off. He got the players that Zook left to buy in.

Muschamp not only ran the players off, he constantly bitched about Meyer and how "things weren't exactly great when I got here". Even in year 4!!!
 
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speaking of OC hires,
fsu had 2 good years......then sunk back to mediocrity losing SIX in a row to UF in the early to mid 80's.

and until Spurrier took the helm, that UF's biggest accomplishment. in contrast, FSU had built a program from scratch in half the time, been ranked in the top 5, and played for the NC.
 
speaking of OC hires,


and until Spurrier took the helm, that UF's biggest accomplishment. in contrast, FSU had built a program from scratch in half the time, been ranked in the top 5, and played for the NC.



This is silly derp propaganda. Before Spurrier got to Florida, as bad as Florida had been UF lead the series with fsu. Frankly, fsu was ECU until UF went on probation in the 80s, you're welcome. btw the 84 UF team was as good as any team fsu ever fielded, better than any fsu team that didn't win a title. In any event it doesn't matter, Meyer and his fake heart attack are gone, nochamp is gone, Coach Mac is the real deal, we'll be returning you to second class status directly, just wait for it.
 
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