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What has happened to CFB in Florida?

PacoGator19

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The big 3 right now are a combined 14-16 this season. We had a few good years with Mullen early on. Miami hasn’t been good since I want to say 2002 and FSU hasn’t been good since Fisher.
Pretty bad and I never saw this coming and I’ve been watching football since the early 80s.

I have my thoughts on to why this decline has happened.
 
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The big 3 right now are a combined 14-16 this season. We had a few good years with Mullen early on. Miami hasn’t been good since I want to say 2002 and FSU hasn’t been good since Fisher.
Pretty bad and I never saw this coming and I’ve been watching football since the early 80s.

I have my thoughts on to why this decline has happened.

The SEC West, Georgia and Ohio State taking most of the game changing players. We are the ones without the excuse in recruiting. I dont think these kids give FSU and Miami much credibility anymore since they went to crap and with how the SEC is.
 
The big 3 right now are a combined 14-16 this season. We had a few good years with Mullen early on. Miami hasn’t been good since I want to say 2002 and FSU hasn’t been good since Fisher.
Pretty bad and I never saw this coming and I’ve been watching football since the early 80s.

I have my thoughts on to why this decline has happened.
Hopefully the chemo and radiation treatment applied Monday won't kill the patient. If only Grantham had been amputated before the beginning of 2020.
 
I think Mullen was done with Grantham once and for all after the 2021 LSU game. I saw a ton of negative body language from Mullin in Grantham's direction that night and even prior in the Kentucky game. Mullin is not blameless, he allowed this to happen, and in the process seems to have lost half the team, all of the ones on the other side of the ball. They are hapless, listless, and only 2 or 3 play with an ounce of pride on defense. The DBs are hopelessly lost, linebackers are never in the right position. No need in going on, Captain Obvious.
 
I think Mullen was done with Grantham once and for all after the 2021 LSU game. I saw a ton of negative body language from Mullin in Grantham's direction that night and even prior in the Kentucky game. Mullin is not blameless, he allowed this to happen, and in the process seems to have lost half the team, all of the ones on the other side of the ball. They are hapless, listless, and only 2 or 3 play with an ounce of pride on defense. The DBs are hopelessly lost, linebackers are never in the right position. No need in going on, Captain Obvious.

I thought we would at least see some good effort on defense today but it appeared it was only from a few of them. A lot of celebrating individual defensive plays while getting gashed by an FCS team however.
 
What is your idea of what is happening for the decline?
Flat out arrogance IMO. All 3 schools felt like they were above the ‘arms race’ and just rested on our laurels and past success. Meanwhile Bama, UGA, Clemson, Ohio St decided to go “all in” on their football programs and now the big 3 are trying to play catch up but are in such a big hole it is making it very difficult to get out of. Those other programs have also raided the state of Florida for talent. It isn’t necessarily the coaches fault although all 3 schools have made some poor hires but mainly and administrative problem that got it all started. IMO Miami is in the biggest trouble because they just don’t have the money to compete with the big boys. That is my opinion anyways.
 
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Flat or arrogance IMO. All 3 schools felt like they were above the ‘arms race’ and just rested on our laurels and past success. Meanwhile Bama, UGA, Clemson, Ohio St decided to go “all in” on their football programs and now the big 3 are trying to play catch up but are in such a big hole it is making it very difficult to get out of. Those other programs have also raided the state of Florida for talent. It isn’t necessarily the coaches fault although all 3 schools have made some poor hires but mainly and administrative problem that got it all started. IMO Miami is in the biggest trouble because they just don’t have the money to compete with the big boys. That is my opinion anyways.
Yep Foley being cheap probably contributed to it some but I still think a top recruiting coach might have had us top 5 area most years but the facilities had become a real big issue by the time Mac got here.
 
Yep Foley being cheap probably contributed to it some but I still think a top recruiting coach might have had us top 5 area most years but the facilities had become a real big issue by the time Mac got here.
It’s not just facilities either but that is a part of it for sure but it is also things like support staff, etc. Saban and Bama were the first ones to start the support staff craze and hiring all these back room people. We were late to that party as well.
 
It's never just one thing. Facilities, other schools making Florida a priority, the rise of the directional schools in the state, admin not keeping up with the recruiting arms race. Then you add in the last 2 coaches, Mac and Mullen, are not known for their recruiting prowess. At least Muschamp could recruit on the defensive side.
 
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It's never just one thing. Facilities, other schools making Florida a priority, the rise of the directional schools in the state, admin not keeping up with the recruiting arms race. Then you add in the last 2 coaches, Mac and Mullen, are not known for their recruiting prowess. At least Muschamp could recruit on the defensive side.

We are in a real bind now where usually only a game changing QB can change the outcome. Even though we are in the much weaker SEC East with Georgia recruiting this good if you don't at least come close to them you will be losing 4 out of 5 years probably. Look at OSU's streak against Michigan due to their recruiting and Michigan wasn't getting really killed in that the first years of Harbaugh.
 
The big 3 right now are a combined 14-16 this season. We had a few good years with Mullen early on. Miami hasn’t been good since I want to say 2002 and FSU hasn’t been good since Fisher.
Pretty bad and I never saw this coming and I’ve been watching football since the early 80s.

I have my thoughts on to why this decline has happened.

FSU hasn’t been good since Dalvin Cook left. I think winning a national championship and getting a divorce affected Jimbo’s focus.

I haven’t given up on Norvell. FSU still isn’t great, but they’ve been improving over the season. I think last night’s win was a team-building morale booster. I see parallels to the 2011 season.
 
FSU hasn’t been good since Dalvin Cook left. I think winning a national championship and getting a divorce affected Jimbo’s focus.

I haven’t given up on Norvell. FSU still isn’t great, but they’ve been improving over the season. I think last night’s win was a team-building morale booster. I see parallels to the 2011 season.

Jimbo also got lucky with Jameis as there is no way they win that championship without him.
 
Jimbo also got lucky with Jameis as there is no way they win that championship without him.

Teams don’t usually championships without great QBs. There are only two current coaches that can win with just about anyone: Saban and Meyer. Jimbo is not GOAT tier, but he is a competent coach who can win when the stars are aligned. That may sound like faint praise, but I’ve found that most coaches can’t even do that.

Yes, Jimbo got lucky. But, he did recruit Winston away from Bama and recruiting is important. Even without Winston, FSU had good seasons in 2010, 2012, 2015, and 2016.
 
Teams don’t usually championships without great QBs. There are only two current coaches that can win with just about anyone: Saban and Meyer. Jimbo is not GOAT tier, but he is a competent coach who can win when the stars are aligned. That may sound like faint praise, but I’ve found that most coaches can’t even do that.

Yes, Jimbo got lucky. But, he did recruit Winston away from Bama and recruiting is important. Even without Winston, FSU had good seasons in 2010, 2012, 2015, and 2016.

True you usually need a pretty good QB but I think kind of like Auburn with Cam Newton that was at least a 3 loss regular season team without him at QB.
 
True you usually need a pretty good QB but I think kind of like Auburn with Cam Newton that was at least a 3 loss regular season team without him at QB.

I don’t think anyone disputes that that FSU probably would not have won the national championship in 2013 without Winston. But Jimbo had a few good years before and after Winston.

As I’ve said in the past, Jimbo is a B+ coach. He’s better than most, and can win if he draws a strong hand. But he is not Saban or Meyer.
 
FSU hasn’t been good since Dalvin Cook left. I think winning a national championship and getting a divorce affected Jimbo’s focus.

I haven’t given up on Norvell. FSU still isn’t great, but they’ve been improving over the season. I think last night’s win was a team-building morale booster. I see parallels to the 2011 season.
Nope Norvell isn’t very good but I agree FSU has improved. It will help Norvell that the ACC is an absolute crap fest right now. It’s the worst it has ever been.
 
Nope Norvell isn’t very good but I agree FSU has improved. It will help Norvell that the ACC is an absolute crap fest right now. It’s the worst it has ever been.

You may be right. But I remember you guys saying the same about Jimbo in 2010-2012. There was a time where this board was convinced that Muschamp was the better hire.
 
You may be right. But I remember you guys saying the same about Jimbo in 2010-2012. There was a time where this board was convinced that Muschamp was the better hire.
Not sure what was said about Jimbo or Muschamp for that matter cause that seems so long ago but if you are referencing Norvell he is 7-12 in the crap ACC so not exactly spectacular. Again it will help that he’s in a crappy conference as far as the rebuild goes though.
 
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I think Mullen was done with Grantham once and for all after the 2021 LSU game. I saw a ton of negative body language from Mullin in Grantham's direction that night and even prior in the Kentucky game. Mullin is not blameless, he allowed this to happen, and in the process seems to have lost half the team, all of the ones on the other side of the ball. They are hapless, listless, and only 2 or 3 play with an ounce of pride on defense. The DBs are hopelessly lost, linebackers are never in the right position. No need in going on, Captain Obvious.
IMO, that negative body language stemmed from the fact that he had just realized that Grantham may have not just killed his own career, but Mullen's as well. You can almost see him thinking "why did I believe you when you told me the problem was the DB coaches?". I had heard they were friends, seriously doubt that's still true, but had Mullen let him go after last year, he could have salvaged the friendship. So it really was a lose lose lose lose lose all the way around.
 
I think all 3 are failing for different reasons. Miami is neglect (the AD has no idea what he's doing) and the admin there don't really care about football. Miami is in real trouble of turning into Nebraska and never being able to dig out of that hole. They can't even recruit Miami..... that is terrible. Fsu problem has been switching coaches so frequently, we have 4 classes of players in a row that are either transition classes, covid class, or coach being fired classes. Our entire team is leftovers that other school didn't want. UF is the one that baffles me the most, it looked like UF was about to make a run but couldn't recruit at an elite level to make it happen. I agree with Pacos assessment on the support staff and facilities (fsu is finally getting a Football only Facility in 2 yrs). To me, it always comes down to recruiting, Miami is like 65th in recruiting right now lol They are terrible and they have so many good players in their backyard. The Gators under Urban dominated recruiting, same with fsu and jimbo. Need those elite recruiters with the correct support.
 
It’s not just facilities either but that is a part of it for sure but it is also things like support staff, etc. Saban and Bama were the first ones to start the support staff craze and hiring all these back room people. We were late to that party as well.
THIS!!!

Ok, with facilities lacking I can understand we never beat Bama and lose most times to UGA. However facilities are no excuse to lose to a first year coach at SCar or honestly any coach not named Spurrier against SCar. Year 1 loss vs UK was understandable. Year 4 loss to UK is not facilities. Nor is allowing 50 plus points to Samford.

Coaching. I honestly thought Mullen and Norvell both were good hires. I honestly don't pay attention to what they have in Tallahassee as far as staff but Dan is lacking as a CEO.
 
THIS!!!

Ok, with facilities lacking I can understand we never beat Bama and lose most times to UGA. However facilities are no excuse to lose to a first year coach at SCar or honestly any coach not named Spurrier against SCar. Year 1 loss vs UK was understandable. Year 4 loss to UK is not facilities. Nor is allowing 50 plus points to Samford.

Coaching. I honestly thought Mullen and Norvell both were good hires. I honestly don't pay attention to what they have in Tallahassee as far as staff but Dan is lacking as a CEO.

We have some decent coaches and honestly I don't want Norvell gone even after 3 wins last yr and 4 wins this yr. We need stability right now and we have some really good coaches (YAC our RB coach, Atkins our o line coach, papuchis DE, Odell DT) but we also have some coaches who leave something to be desired (Dugans WR, Marve LB, Thomsen TE). We need stability more than anything. Norvell is learning on the job and the ACC sucks asss right now so it shouldn't be that difficult if we just keep improving. I'm honestly impressed with how good we have played this yr, coaches making chicken salad out of chicken shit
 
I think all 3 are failing for different reasons. Miami is neglect (the AD has no idea what he's doing) and the admin there don't really care about football. Miami is in real trouble of turning into Nebraska and never being able to dig out of that hole. They can't even recruit Miami..... that is terrible. Fsu problem has been switching coaches so frequently, we have 4 classes of players in a row that are either transition classes, covid class, or coach being fired classes. Our entire team is leftovers that other school didn't want. UF is the one that baffles me the most, it looked like UF was about to make a run but couldn't recruit at an elite level to make it happen. I agree with Pacos assessment on the support staff and facilities (fsu is finally getting a Football only Facility in 2 yrs). To me, it always comes down to recruiting, Miami is like 65th in recruiting right now lol They are terrible and they have so many good players in their backyard. The Gators under Urban dominated recruiting, same with fsu and jimbo. Need those elite recruiters with the correct support.

I agree on Mullen. It’s shocking how quickly things unraveled for him. How does a guy with years of solid SEC HC experience, who had a respectable record at Mississippi State end up doing worse at Florida? On paper, he was as safe of a bet as you could get. It doesn’t make sense.

Once again, I am reminded of how difficult it is to predict a coach’s future success based on past performance. Even Bama, the most successful CFB program in modern history, passed on Bobby Bowden (an Alabama native) in the 80s, and years later I think they went with Mike Shula before Saban. Imagine an alternate timeline where Bama actually hired Bowden.
 
I agree on Mullen. It’s shocking how quickly things unraveled for him. How does a guy with years of solid SEC HC experience, who had a respectable record at Mississippi State end up doing worse at Florida? On paper, he was as safe of a bet as you could get. It doesn’t make sense.

Once again, I am reminded of how difficult it is to predict a coach’s future success based on past performance. Even Bama, the most successful CFB program in modern history, passed on Bobby Bowden (an Alabama native) in the 80s, and years later I think they went with Mike Shula before Saban. Imagine an alternate timeline where Bama actually hired Bowden.

What's crazy with Mullen is the Gators have gotten better every yr since he's been here... it unraveled so quickly.
 
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I agree on Mullen. It’s shocking how quickly things unraveled for him. How does a guy with years of solid SEC HC experience, who had a respectable record at Mississippi State end up doing worse at Florida? On paper, he was as safe of a bet as you could get. It doesn’t make sense.

Once again, I am reminded of how difficult it is to predict a coach’s future success based on past performance. Even Bama, the most successful CFB program in modern history, passed on Bobby Bowden (an Alabama native) in the 80s, and years later I think they went with Mike Shula before Saban. Imagine an alternate timeline where Bama actually hired Bowden.
I can't remember the timeline but wasn't Saban in the NFL when they hired Shula?
 
What's crazy with Mullen is the Gators have gotten better every yr since he's been here... it unraveled so quickly.
I'm just curious to see if this is that crazy off year like Brian Kelly had that 4 year win at ND. Most all other years he's competed for playoff spots or at least top ten spots. Top 25 at worst. Or is Mullen dead man walking?

I want to see who he requires as DC and other position coach and see if he brings in some quality recruiters or changes the recruiting approach.
 
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What's crazy with Mullen is the Gators have gotten better every yr since he's been here... it unraveled so quickly.

It shows how much Trask and Pitts changed things (Georgia win) last season. We are definitely not recruiting at Georgia's level but we do have more talent on the roster than every SEC team but Georgia, Bama, LSU and A&M probably. I think we are barely in front of A&M on the talent index but its due to adding those two 5 star RB transfers who aren't getting much playing time.

I think just like after Mac was fired we have enough raw talent to be competitive and win 9 or 10 games next season. Not sure if we will have too many big playmakers on offense though unless some young receiver steps up.
 
It does seem odd how completely derailed the team has become.

I also don't like the suggested coaching candidates that the internet is proposing.

Pretty much all defensive guys and then Billy Napier.
 
I agree on Mullen. It’s shocking how quickly things unraveled for him. How does a guy with years of solid SEC HC experience, who had a respectable record at Mississippi State end up doing worse at Florida? On paper, he was as safe of a bet as you could get. It doesn’t make sense.

Once again, I am reminded of how difficult it is to predict a coach’s future success based on past performance. Even Bama, the most successful CFB program in modern history, passed on Bobby Bowden (an Alabama native) in the 80s, and years later I think they went with Mike Shula before Saban. Imagine an alternate timeline where Bama actually hired Bowden.
Shula came before Saban.

We whiffed badly on Bowden. He wanted the job, we made him interview by committee, Walter Lewis asked him why he never had a black QB (He had just signed Charlie Ward at the time, I believe). Then they told Bowden to go sit out in the hall while they discussed it. They made him wait 45 mins, Bowden got pissed and left, which I can't blame him for.

That was a big miss, but hiring Bowden would have meant we miss out on both Stallings and Saban, that's a combined 7 NCs.
 
It does seem odd how completely derailed the team has become.

I also don't like the suggested coaching candidates that the internet is proposing.

Pretty much all defensive guys and then Billy Napier.
I just want a CEO type. I don't care if he has a defense or offense background. Many(including Michi, Numbers, etc) claimed Chad Morris was the machine behind Clemson. That was so off. The current coach and the last one were offense guys. They lack/Ed the CEO skills to have a complete team.
 
It's never just one thing. Facilities, other schools making Florida a priority, the rise of the directional schools in the state, admin not keeping up with the recruiting arms race. Then you add in the last 2 coaches, Mac and Mullen, are not known for their recruiting prowess. At least Muschamp could recruit on the defensive side.
What rise in the directional schools? Yes UCF had their run for a minute under Frost and 1 year with Huphel. USF is down, FAU has Willie Taggart,. and FIU can't travel to recruit and got used pads from Mississippi State (Butch plans to retire). The directional schools have been up and down for years. I guess the only up is that they are now D1 and not D1AA. The only consistent one was UCF that had good years under O'Leary, Frost, and Huphel. They did get promoted to P5 but that's about it. Florida is big enough state to have 5 P5 schools but only has 4.
 
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Throw a Brinks truck at an elite DC and things will be fine.

Not if Georgia keeps recruiting like this and going 11-1 + almost every season pre-SECCG . Look what that level of recruiting has helped do to the rest of the SEC West. We are lucky being in a much weaker East but with what Georgia is doing now 1-3 against them every 4 years is likely if the recruiting doesn't start actually getting a lot closer. We would be rooting on Georgia keeping their coach if the roles were reversed now.
 
Not if Georgia keeps recruiting like this and going 11-1 + almost every season pre-SECCG . Look what that level of recruiting has helped do to the rest of the SEC West. We are lucky being in a much weaker East but with what Georgia is doing now 1-3 against them every 4 years is likely if the recruiting doesn't start actually getting a lot closer. We would be rooting on Georgia keeping their coach if the roles were reversed now.
Do you honestly think Kirbs is a better head coach than Mullen?

If you do, then I would can Mullen and go in another direction.

Mullen can't carry Kirbs jockstrap when it comes to recruiting, but Kirbs can't carry his when it comes to being a head coach. Take the things that Mullen can't do well (recruit and coach defense) and hire elite coaches that can do those things for him.

Let Mullen do the one thing he's great at; Run offenses and develop QBs. Let your assistants handle the rest and Florida will be fine.
 
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Do you honestly think Kirbs is a better head coach than Mullen?

If you do, then I would can Mullen and go in another direction.

Mullen can't carry Kirbs jockstrap when it comes to recruiting, but Kirbs can't carry his when it comes to being a head coach. Take the things that Mullen can't do well (recruit and coach defense) and hire elite coaches that can do those things for him.

Let Mullen do the one thing he's great at; Run offenses and develop QBs. Let your assistants handle the rest and Florida will be fine.

Overall now he is clearly a better head coach. Mullen needs to go be an OC somewhere or a head coach where there are less expectations since recruiting isn't his thing. Recruiting is a huge part of the job. Kirby might not have been way off when he said game day coaching was only 25% of the equation. I think he pegged it as 25% talent evaluation 50% recruiting and 25% game day coaching. He also will have went 11-1+ pre-SECCG 4 of the past 5 years with an SEC championship and an appearance in the national championship game.

No top Power 5 Defensive coordinator is coming here to try and save Mullen (well at least I think the chances of that are maybe 1% or 2%) with the hot seat he is on. We will likely end up with one that did good in group of five football as a DC or one that isn't at a real good power 5 school now.

Mullen's only chance to get this turned around for a bit is if Richardson actually took over and became a good one. Jones isn't taking us to an SEC Championship as he is the type of QB that you would have to match the other teams personnel.
 
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