Vivek: On the evolution of “woke” from CRT

[grandhavendiddy]

No one said he couldn’t run. I said he couldn’t win, and said as a christian he won’t get my vote. But nice attempt at conflating the two.


The other debates have been hashed. There is a massive difference between me choosing what I do with MY body, and only my body…and what someone does to someone elses body as a result of a CHOICE they already made.

It is indeed your right to select and vote for a candidate who best fits your views and interests. No attempt to conflate, but happy to delineate.

It is also good for you and others to hash out what Vivek truly stands for. That is an appropriate part of the political process and his prior posts are fair game.

In the end, it will not matter. Trump will be the nominee. The question on Vivek is can he, through his principled defenses of MAGA principles (which your article notes) support Trump in the general. To that end, the far right should be careful about how aggressively they attack Vivek as Vivek has been careful with his comments around Trump. If Vivek, for example, can convince Hindu voters to vote for Trump, especially in those swing counties, that is important. I think Trump gets this.

The other debates, as you note, have been hashed out.

 

[RussellCasse]

It is indeed your right to select and vote for a candidate who best fits your views and interests. No attempt to conflate, but happy to delineate.

It is also good for you and others to hash out what Vivek truly stands for. That is an appropriate part of the political process and his prior posts are fair game.

In the end, it will not matter. Trump will be the nominee. The question on Vivek is can he, through his principled defenses of MAGA principles (which your article notes) support Trump in the general. To that end, the far right should be careful about how aggressively they attack Vivek as Vivek has been careful with his comments around Trump. If Vivek, for example, can convince Hindu voters to vote for Trump, especially in those swing counties, that is important. I think Trump gets this.

The other debates, as you note, have been hashed out.

I just can’t with someone who flat out lies about who they are. If you are who you say you are, then why are you paying to have history scrubbed?

Why are you now defending Trump, when in 2021 you were bashing him?

No need to answer as I think we are both smart enough to figure out why someone wouldn’t want others to know their past, and why you would say something different today, as a candidate, than what you said as a private citizen not running for office.

Red Flags about who he truly is.

And yes, Faith matters.

 

[FresnoGator]

Bigger hurdle. That whole practicing Hindu thing. Just sayin.

View embedded media

Just because he's Hindu does not mean he is anti-Christian.

A few years ago I recall distinctly being told not to rush to judgment. Any time a Muslim perpetrated, a terrorist attack. I recall that same president giving boat loads of money to Muslim terrorist organizations. Like CAIR. Give me a Hindu over that any day of the week ...

 

[grandhavendiddy]

Ahhhh. So you’re ok with attacking the messenger here. Got it.

What about the message?

Fair question. I assume you mean her Tweet? Yes, we should be able to evaluate people at face value.

This country was founded by individuals who were more Deists than doctrinal Christians.

"Like other Founding Fathers, Jefferson was considered a Deist, subscribing to the liberal religious strand of Deism that values reason over revelation and rejects traditional Christian doctrines, including the Virgin Birth, original sin and the resurrection of Jesus."

The country was founded on the enlightenment and the power and dignity of the individual over the institution. It was captured as much by Martin Luther in the 95 theses promulgated in 1517. As such, it threw off the hegemony of the church and ultimately the crown as concentration of power can promote tyranny.

The country was founded on the enlightenment and a liberal form of Deism, likely not the "Christianity" that she is espousing.

My general view of our country comes from the 1984 song REM "Little America" and this one lyric:

"Jefferson, I think we're lost"

 

[nothergator]

This isn’t difficult with Vivek. If you’re a Christian, it really isn’t difficult.

If you’re a Christian, pray about it. No doubt in my mind that the God I serve wouldn’t want me being lead by a Hindu.

Christian is not the only religion that is for good and opposes evil.

 

[nothergator]

Christian is not the only religion that is for good and opposes evil.

If the religion that you serve inspires you to oppose evil, then you are my brother or sister.

 

[RussellCasse]

Christian is not the only religion that is for good and opposes evil.

Didn’t say that. I said as a christian My God wouldn’t want me to be lead by a Hindu.

The beliefs of Hinduism are incompatible with Christianity. If you really want to dive into your “evil” comment….

As Christians the worshipping of idols is evil. Having idolatry of evil at the highest level of Government is not what we should be doing from a Christian perspective.

If you believe the Book, you either believe all or none. Ephesians 6:12 says…

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

That being the case, I choose not to put things we wrestle with, in position of power.

 

[RussellCasse]

Fair question. I assume you mean her Tweet? Yes, we should be able to evaluate people at face value.

This country was founded by individuals who were more Deists than doctrinal Christians.

"Like other Founding Fathers, Jefferson was considered a Deist, subscribing to the liberal religious strand of Deism that values reason over revelation and rejects traditional Christian doctrines, including the Virgin Birth, original sin and the resurrection of Jesus."

The country was founded on the enlightenment and the power and dignity of the individual over the institution. It was captured as much by Martin Luther in the 95 theses promulgated in 1517. As such, it threw off the hegemony of the church and ultimately the crown as concentration of power can promote tyranny.

The country was founded on the enlightenment and a liberal form of Deism, likely not the "Christianity" that she is espousing.

My general view of our country comes from the 1984 song REM "Little America" and this one lyric:

"Jefferson, I think we're lost"

You realize this is a debate that has raged on for hundreds of years, and that I could provide just as many quotes from our founders that support this being a nation founded on Judeo Christian beliefs, right?

Not only could I provide quotes, but could provide actions. Like the bevy of founders who supported using the Bible as an educational tool. And in fact was still used as an educational tool in schools until the 60’s.

If separation of church and state is defined using your chosen defintion, then one would think that our founders would have unanimously opposed this practice. Not only did they not oppose it, but many vocalized their support of it.

 

[nothergator]

Didn’t say that. I said as a christian My God wouldn’t want me to be lead by a Hindu.

The beliefs of Hinduism are incompatible with Christianity. If you really want to dive into your “evil” comment….

As Christians the worshipping of idols is evil. Having idolatry of evil at the highest level of Government is not what we should be doing from a Christian perspective.

If you believe the Book, you either believe all or none. Ephesians 6:12 says…

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

That being the case, I chose not to put things we wrestle with, in position of power.

I believe most of the "book" is outstanding in the principles and morals that it espouses. However, I do not believe nor follow all of it. But for you and yours you do you and I reserve the right to do the same.

 

[RussellCasse]

Just because he's Hindu does not mean he is anti-Christian.

A few years ago I recall distinctly being told not to rush to judgment. Any time a Muslim perpetrated, a terrorist attack. I recall that same president giving boat loads of money to Muslim terrorist organizations. Like CAIR. Give me a Hindu over that any day of the week ...

Christianity and Hinduism are incompatible. See other post. As a christian, one cannot justify supporting putting something the book says is evil, in a position of power.

My suggestion is prayer, and seek pastorial guidance on supporting Hinduism.

 

[RussellCasse]

I believe most of the "book" is outstanding in the principles and morals that it espouses. However, I do not believe nor follow all of it. But for you and yours you do you and I reserve the right to do the same.

As a Follower of Christ, I cannot be a follower or supporter of Hinduism.

False idols and worship are EVIL, and my faith won’t allow my support of such.

As such, It would be a massive mistake. This country needs God now, and that very well could be the final straw in Gods eyes.

I think this is a topic @Dr. Curmudgeon would enjoy as well.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

As a Follower of Christ, I cannot be a follower or supporter of Hinduism.

False idols and worship are EVIL, and my faith won’t allow my support of such.

As such, It would be a massive mistake. This country needs God now, and that very well could be the final straw in Gods eyes.

I think this is a topic @Dr. Curmudgeon would enjoy as well.

Same, I didn't realize he was practicing Hinduism, that's a dealbreaker for me.

 

[RussellCasse]

Same, I didn't realize he was practicing Hinduism, that's a dealbreaker for me.

Your other comment was spot on as well. 😉

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

Christian is not the only religion that is for good and opposes evil.

Christians are flatly told not to worship idols. God's wrath has continually pored down on people that have.

Sorry, but I'll put listening to God over being politically correct.

 

[nothergator]

As a Follower of Christ, I cannot be a follower or supporter of Hinduism.

False idols and worship are EVIL, and my faith won’t allow my support of such.

As such, It would be a massive mistake. This country needs God now, and that very well could be the final straw in Gods eyes.

I think this is a topic @Dr. Curmudgeon would enjoy as well.

I like both you and the good Dr. (Curmudgeon). Certainly, you and Dr C should follow whomever you choose. However, I am against opposing a fellow Republican just because of his religious beliefs. I am a firm believer that we should keep politics out of religion and vice versa.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

Your other comment was spot on as well. 😉

Most of my best content never makes it past 5 seconds on this board LOL I re-read and delete often.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

I like both you and the good Dr. (Curmudgeon). Certainly, you and Dr C should follow whomever you choose. However, I am against opposing a fellow Republican just because of his religious beliefs. I am a firm believer that we should keep politics out of religion and vice versa.

A person's religious beliefs affect all areas of their lives. We cannot separate a person's religion from their politics. It's simply not possible. Carrying that logic to the extreme would be supporting a republican pedophile because you say their personal relationships are none of your business.

 

[RussellCasse]

I like both you and the good Dr. (Curmudgeon). Certainly, you and Dr C should follow whomever you choose. However, I am against opposing a fellow Republican just because of his religious beliefs. I am a firm believer that we should keep politics out of religion and vice versa.

All good man, it’s just Viveks religion….and my faith, are water and oil.

As such, I personally, can’t support him.

 

[RussellCasse]

Christians are flatly told not to worship idols. God's wrath has continually pored down on people that have.

Sorry, but I'll put listening to God over being politically correct.

This^^^^. It’s not always easy, as many are afraid to speak up because you sometimes take a verbal beating.

But as Christians, that’s ok. Jesus is our example.

 

[nothergator]

All good man, it’s just Viveks religion….and my faith, are water and oil.

As such, I personally, can’t support him.

I'm not sure what Trumps' religion is but I'm gonna vote for him anyway. As a matter of fact, I wish we had a candidate who wasn't as egotistical and abrasive as Trump but when you look at past performance in office, Trump is by far our best option.

 

[RussellCasse]

I'm not sure what Trumps' religion is but I'm gonna vote for him anyway. As a matter of fact, I wish we had a candidate who wasn't as egotistical and abrasive as Trump but when you look at past performance in office, Trump is by far our best option.

As good a place as any for this reminder…

 

[BamaFan1137]

Why are you now defending Trump, when in 2021 you were bashing him?

Because he disagreed with Trump???

Many people who will vote for Trump have disagreed with him...sometimes vehemently over serious issues. That doesn't mean more than it means.

I believe that the election was almost certainly stolen. Simultaneously, unless you can prove that it was, that statement means f-all. So disagreeing with a particular strategy of Trump doesn't necessarily make one evil or anti-Trump.

But as Vivek's popularity grows, it's not a real shock to many people that the knives come out. It's becoming old hat.

 

[RussellCasse]

Because he disagreed with Trump???

.

No, because he changed his stance based on political expediency. It is what it is.

Same reason he is PAYING to have history removed from the web. It is what it is.

Change the name Vivek, with Biden.

“Biden pays to have history scrubbed”

We all know that’s something we would all be pounding the keyboards about.

The bottom line for me though, is faith.

 

[Mdfgator]

Agreed. What he does (very) well is hold his own on the media outlets with a clear, compelling, and at times unforgiving view on an American first agenda.

Apparently, per this thread, we are also a country that can only be led by Christians. Not clear if that further cleaves down into certain types of Christians (e.g. no Catholics, Episcopalians are too liberal, etc.) but clearly not Hindus.

@Captain - want to know why people in the center may have voted for a Democrat and not a Republican? When someone like Vivek is not wanted because he is a Hindu, then, they feel they have no place in the Republican party. And to some extent, I cannot blame them...

The religious right is the root of all evil in the country.

 

[jsfgators]

Christianity and Hinduism are incompatible. See other post. As a christian, one cannot justify supporting putting something the book says is evil, in a position of power.

My suggestion is prayer, and seek pastorial guidance on supporting Hinduism.

This is it. I hear all there Universalists out there that say its okay to practice any religion, as long as you are good person you go to heaven. Not good. Non-Christians don't get my vote. I dont treat people of other faiths poorly, I simply dont want to be led by them.

 

[jsfgators]

This is it. I hear all there Universalists out there that say its okay to practice any religion, as long as you are good person you go to heaven. Not good. Non-Christians don't get my vote. I dont treat people of other faiths poorly, I simply dont want to be led by them.

Ill go one step further....they have to a Christian that believes in the Trinity. There are "Christians" that dont believe in the Trinity....thats a no-go to

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

This is it. I hear all there Universalists out there that say its okay to practice any religion, as long as you are good person you go to heaven. Not good. Non-Christians don't get my vote. I dont treat people of other faiths poorly, I simply dont want to be led by them.

Good works alone are not enough to get into Heaven. The Bible is quite clear on this point.

 

[FresnoGator]

Good works alone are not enough to get into Heaven. The Bible is quite clear on this point.

I'm not quite as concerned about being led by someone who is not necessarily going to the preferred version of heaven as I am concerned about being led by someone who most assuredly is going to hell ...

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

I'm not quite as concerned about being led by someone who is not necessarily going to the preferred version of heaven as I am concerned about being led by someone who most assuredly is going to hell ...

Fair enough. I just am very skittish on compromising when it comes to God's teachings. I would rather err on the side of being inflexible. But to each their own.

 

[RussellCasse]

I'm not quite as concerned about being led by someone who is not necessarily going to the preferred version of heaven as I am concerned about being led by someone who most assuredly is going to hell ...

In fairness, my faith teaches there is one way to the Kingdom, which would mean, the Hindu is going to that other most assuredly place. 😉

 

[FresnoGator]

In fairness, my faith teaches there is one way to the Kingdom, which would mean, the Hindu is going to that other most assuredly place. 😉

Well, Jews don't believe in heaven and hell, so I guess I'd be headed there too ...

 

[RussellCasse]

Well, Jews don't believe in heaven and hell, so I guess I'd be headed there too ...

I guess it depends on your version of Judaism as it seems like there are both factions. But to make a blanket statement like that, I don’t believe that would be accurate.

Belief in Heaven is Fundamental to Judaism

Jews and non-Jews ask to explain the Jewish view of heaven and hell. Is there a Jewish heaven? Let's find out from this interesting post.

jewsforjudaism.org

 

[FresnoGator]

I guess it depends on your version of Judaism as it seems like there are both factions. But to make a blanket statement like that, I don’t believe that would be accurate.

Belief in Heaven is Fundamental to Judaism

Jews and non-Jews ask to explain the Jewish view of heaven and hell. Is there a Jewish heaven? Let's find out from this interesting post.

jewsforjudaism.org

Interesting, been told by more than 1 rabbi that most Jews go to a place that is peaceful and the ones that don't experience the type of purgatory referenced in the article you linked, so not the traditional heaven / hell, but more like the lite version of each ...

 

[RussellCasse]

Interesting, been told by more than 1 rabbi that most Jews go to a place that is peaceful and the ones that don't experience the type of purgatory referenced in the article you linked, so not the traditional heaven / hell, but more like the lite version of each ...

Yeah. It seems like there are both factions. Those that say there is an afterlife and those that say no. I just read the book, so not 💯 on all the intricacies of Judaism. Just know the basics.

As for me, I spent a portion of life in organized religion, but now just read the book and spend some time in “church” at home with family….sort of like homeschool for church.

Mostly because our lifestyle doesn’t permit otherwise. But it’s nice to learn it without influence. IMO. So many fallacies I was taught, that I had to unlearn, so to speak.

 

[Dr. Curmudgeon]

As a Follower of Christ, I cannot be a follower or supporter of Hinduism.

False idols and worship are EVIL, and my faith won’t allow my support of such.

As such, It would be a massive mistake. This country needs God now, and that very well could be the final straw in Gods eyes.

I think this is a topic @Dr. Curmudgeon would enjoy as well.

As great of a person as we think Gandhi was if he didn't accept Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior then he's in hell with the worst people on earth.

 

[RussellCasse]

As great of a person as we think Gandhi was if he didn't accept Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior then he's in hell with the worst people on earth.

Good to see ya Dr. 😉

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

Interesting, been told by more than 1 rabbi that most Jews go to a place that is peaceful and the ones that don't experience the type of purgatory referenced in the article you linked, so not the traditional heaven / hell, but more like the lite version of each ...

I just googled this and it said that some Jews do indeed believe in something similar to purgatory. I believe one site said some Jews believe that if they had sins that hadn't been 'cleaned' prior to death, that they would spend 12 months in this sort of purgatory being 'cleaned' then go on to Heaven.

I know that Jews don't believe that Jesus is the Messiah, but what's the reasoning behind that? Is it simply that Jews believe the Messiah will be a military leader in the spirit of David, or something else?

 

[FresnoGator]

I just googled this and it said that some Jews do indeed believe in something similar to purgatory. I believe one site said some Jews believe that if they had sins that hadn't been 'cleaned' prior to death, that they would spend 12 months in this sort of purgatory being 'cleaned' then go on to Heaven.

I know that Jews don't believe that Jesus is the Messiah, but what's the reasoning behind that? Is it simply that Jews believe the Messiah will be a military leader in the spirit of David, or something else?

Jews regard Jesus as a nice Jewish boy / carpenter and believe the Messiah has yet to come. Not sure / don't remember what they are looking for ...

 

[grandhavendiddy]

I just googled this and it said that some Jews do indeed believe in something similar to purgatory. I believe one site said some Jews believe that if they had sins that hadn't been 'cleaned' prior to death, that they would spend 12 months in this sort of purgatory being 'cleaned' then go on to Heaven.

I know that Jews don't believe that Jesus is the Messiah, but what's the reasoning behind that? Is it simply that Jews believe the Messiah will be a military leader in the spirit of David, or something else?

fwiw....

What do Jews believe about the afterlife?

Less than half of American Jews believe there is a heaven or a hell; not all that surprising, since that half also does not believe in a higher power or spiritual force of any kind.

www.jpost.com

 

[RussellCasse]

fwiw....

What do Jews believe about the afterlife?

Less than half of American Jews believe there is a heaven or a hell; not all that surprising, since that half also does not believe in a higher power or spiritual force of any kind.

www.jpost.com

I did the same. Googled. Surprisingly there were more results with articles saying there was afterlife, than those that didn’t believe.

Not sure if theres a consensus or not. Not that it matters.

Then there’s this one, that swings both ways.

4. How do Jewish people believe you get to heaven?

4. How do Jewish people believe you get to heaven? Before we answer that question, it needs to be said that not all Jewish people believe in heaven. Reformed Jewish people, (the least o…

midwestmessianic.com