He really made some strange decisions down the stretch in this game. He did not give us any chance in OT.
Tough loss, not Mike White's best effort for sure
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Our guards are just not very good. Allen has been really good all year, especially for a freshman, but Hill & Chiozza are average at best and they are the ball-handling point guards. Too much dribbling around, too many turnovers. This team has the talent to be better than they are. The West Virginia game proved that. Tough loss, no doubt.
We had a wedding to go to over the weekend and I just got back after driving while the game was on. I assume I do not need to watch the replay. I have seen enough losses by this team to know how they manage to do it.
The PGs were bad. Hill tried to give the game away early. Chiozza got things under control and hit some shots but he had some terrible turnovers late when we were trying to protect the lead. He handed them the lead with less than a minute left when he threw that ball away under the basket and gave them a breakaway dunk. We're up one with the ball and they end up with an uncontested dunk.
It reminded me of the sc game in 08 or 09 where we're shooting free throws with a two point lead and we miss the ft, Werner gets beat back by a full court lob and then fouls the guy on the layup for the and 1.
It reminded me of the sc game in 08 or 09 where we're shooting free throws with a two point lead and we miss the ft, Werner gets beat back by a full court lob and then fouls the guy on the layup for the and 1.
Again the team will never be better than average with the PGs we have right now. I find it kind of humorous that some people actually thought Chiozza was good. He and Hill are both average PG at best.
Chris has regressed the last coupla games. But even with that, he is still one of the best PGs, in terms of assists, in the SEC.
To wit;
To wit;
Too early.
If he can get this team to the tournament, that will be a very credible first year effort.
The team plays very hard for him. They by in large defend well. But damn, sometimes they cannot hit wide open shots.
Chiozza is 9th in the SEC in assists per game. Not sure I would call that great by any stretch of the imagination. There's only 14 teams in the SEC and therefore only 14 starting PGs. Stefan Moody for example averages less assists per game than Chiozza and even a worse TO/Asst per game than Chiozza but nobody in their right mind would take Chiozza over Moody. Not even close.
If UF had Moody we would be a much better team. Chiozza and Hill are nothing better than average and probably will never be better than average. It just is what it is.
If UF had Moody we would be a much better team. Chiozza and Hill are nothing better than average and probably will never be better than average. It just is what it is.
WHAT??? He is seventh in assists, according to the above list. And he is fifth in assist to turnovers. And he is near the top in assist per minute. And if one looks at ONLY SEC games, he has 5.2 assist per game.
Stick to football. You seem to understand that a bit better.
But there are a lot of Guards ranked. For example, as bad as Hill has been bad, he is the 18th ranked pg in the league.
Moody is a better scorer than either. But scoring is not the primary purpose of a PG. Assists and taking care of the ball are the primary responsibilities. Moody is more a shooting guard.
If we had Moody, he would be a shooting guard. And yes, we would be a better team
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I suggest you take a look at the stats from above again. He's 9th in assists per game. There are other important stats than just assists for PGs. Your PG needs to be able to hit some shots as well to keep defenses honest and open it up for teammates. Chiozza is a terrible shooter. His FG% is worse than Hill's.
By the way Moody is 5'10. He can't play SG. He's a PG.
I did look. I agree he is ninth in that stat. But he is seventh in total assists, fifth in Assist to Turnover. And you also say he is ninth among starting PGs. That is simply not true, as there are at least two guys not at starting PG ahead of him. You took one stat to "prove" your point.
I agree with this.
Oh rly?
Moody is a PG. That is what he plays and that is what he will play in the NBA if he makes it. He's too short to be a 2 guard. How many 5'10 SGs are there running around? It's a liability on both ends of the floor if your playing the 2.
I think White has done a very good job in his 1st year. The guys play hard for him and they've had some nice wins. He's not the one bricking 3's and free throws and making insane turnovers at critical times. All he can do is run the player rotations and put the teams in the best position to win and while he's made some mistakes in that regard over the course of the year, I think overall he's done pretty well. Recruiting is going to decide how long he stays. We only have 2 guys coming in for next year's team unless we get a transfer or two. One is a 3 star 6'8" 205 lb. Power Forward, the other a 3 star 6'3" shooting guard. Next year's team is still going to have Hill & Chiozza at PG, Allen at SG with Francis-Ramirez behind him, Egbunu & Hayes alternating inside, Devin Robinson at a Forward with Leon & Rimmer in the mix. We have no one to replace Finney-Smith's versatility and hustle and a year older doesn't necessarily make them better. White has got to go out and recruit some big time players or he won't last long. The SEC is competitive this year, but is not a quality league compared to the other major conferences and if we can't compete for a championship in the SEC we're nowhere close to being a contender at the national level.
Yeah, he has to recruit. That's how Billy D got it going. Later, I think he kind of lost patience with it, and who can blame him?
I'm hopeful that Robinson and Allen can step in for DFS next year as the focal on offense. They get it done in different ways, but Robinson, when he's playing well, reminds me of DFS a little bit. They both are natural rebounders. DFS is stronger, but Robinson is an NBA athlete. DFS is better with the ball and better from 3, but I think Robinson has a better touch and just needs to shoot with confidence.
Our PGs both would be good options coming off the bench. I'm hoping one of them becomes more than that, but I'm not optimistic.
We really do need better ones than the ones we have. Chris needs to improve his outside shot. Hill needs to learn to finish at the basket and how to shoot FTs. If either of them learned to do that, they would both be very good PGs.
It's pretty rare. Even Lee Humphrey was 6'2. And Moody wouldn't be a SG here at UF. He would be our starting PG with Allen at the SG spot.
Not rare. Not rare at all. But, in fairness, not common either
But, whatever. You are like the FSU fans. You had to change the narrative.
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What are you talking about? Your the one that said if Moody was at UF he would be a SG. No way that would happen. If Moody was at UF he would be a PG and Allen would be the SG. Nobody in the country would do that.
And again it is very very rare to have a 5'10 SG. How many 5'10 SGs can you name? I stand by what I said earlier that it is very rare and that also Hill and Chiozza are at best average PGs.
We need to add Georgia Southern to the schedule before we will know for certain.
Mike White still has the best W/L record, against the strongest RPI, of the 4 new SEC B-Ball coaches at 17-10, 8-6 SEC. The new B-Ball coach is doing great, but the game to game Inconsistent shooting by the players continues to be the Gator's nemesis imo....
~ Even with a highly rated RPI, 6 of the Gator's 10 losses this season have been by an average of -3.7 pts. White is that close to being 23-4 at this point. He can coach well enough, but he can't put the ball in the basket for the players.
Right now they're a 'Bubble' team for the Big Dance, but the NIT for sure if they aren't voted into the Dance.
And while the jury is still out (to early to say yet) on White as the Gator's long term coach, he has already exceeded (17-10) both of BillyD's win totals in his first 2 seasons at UF (13-17 & 14-15), and in his last season (16-17) at UF, so he's certainly off to a pretty good start.
BTW - BillyD, with the Okla-Thunder, becomes just the 2nd Rookie NBA coach to get 40+ wins.
~ Even with a highly rated RPI, 6 of the Gator's 10 losses this season have been by an average of -3.7 pts. White is that close to being 23-4 at this point. He can coach well enough, but he can't put the ball in the basket for the players.
Right now they're a 'Bubble' team for the Big Dance, but the NIT for sure if they aren't voted into the Dance.
And while the jury is still out (to early to say yet) on White as the Gator's long term coach, he has already exceeded (17-10) both of BillyD's win totals in his first 2 seasons at UF (13-17 & 14-15), and in his last season (16-17) at UF, so he's certainly off to a pretty good start.
BTW - BillyD, with the Okla-Thunder, becomes just the 2nd Rookie NBA coach to get 40+ wins.
I still believe that 2-2 in these last 4 will get us in. Our BPI and RPI are strong and we only have 1 bad loss (Tenn).
As far as White, I've been pretty impressed. As was noted, the team plays hard and defends and they keep playing the entire game. They've had some nice comebacks, although they've come up short in a few of them. I'm a little surprised we haven't been able to get out in transition more, since we have good athletes and we rebound. But I think defenses are just a lot better at getting back these days. It's probably tough to coach a team where nobody can hit a layup, a jump shot or a free throw. It kind of limits your options, offensively.
It's stating the obvious, but recruiting will be the whole deal.
It's stating the obvious, but recruiting will be the whole deal.
Way too much time being taken to get the team in O attack mode. Too many times the clock wound down under 5-10 seconds and nobody was in position to make a play. O has to get set earlier in the clock IMHO.
Well, IMHO Billy D left on his own accord where as Muschamp was fired. There are still people that believe Muschamp should have never been fired and should have been given another season. Same can't be said for Billy since he bailed on his own.
Oh Dear.
The whole discussion started after you began preening about your earlier criticism of Chris. I supported Chris during that previous discussion, and still do now, in spite of his recent troubles. You are the one that brought Moody up, asking me if I would rather have him than the other two PGs we have on the team. I merely suggested that Moody is a better SG than he is a PG. Which the numbers support. And suggested that IF he were on our team, along with both Chris and Kasey, that Moody's talents would likely make his place on the team as more a SG than a PG.
So, after your criticism against Chris was thoroughly repudiated, you attempted to change the narrative and make it all about Moody.
That is very nolish.
Both are not finishing well down the stretch, in game performance.
White can still get to the NCAAs.
I understand your point, but I am not sure I have ever run across a Gator fan that wanted to keep Muschamp.
Exactly my point.
McElwain still got to the SECCG.
Just interesting that there's far more support for White, who is struggling badly despite the success Florida had for all but one of the previous 5 years compared to the 5 years of football before McElwain arrived.
I think that a part of it might also be that White took over a team, largely unchanged, from one that last finished with a losing record and a demonstrably excellent head coach at the helm.
I'm cautiously optimistic about both. Next season will certainly be revealing for both.
I think you are comparing two different time frames. The support for McE become a bit more tepid after three consecutive losses and a disappointing recruiting finish. This after winning the SEC East very early and having a lit of recruiting momentum in November and December.
The basketball team is, right about now, where the football team was going into Vandy.
Let's see how White finishes before we draw comparisons.
Really? Do you read these boards? Same as with Zook, there are some Muschamp sympathizers in the crowd.
I feel similar about both coaches. I think both have done reasonably well given what was left them, but neither is blowing my doors off yet. MCE's last recruiting class has a lot of people concerned. You should be able to fall over backwards and sign a top 10 class for Florida football. Basketball is tougher, as even Billy D found out.
I don't know much about the current hoops class. Hester supposedly had a legit offer from Louisville, so that's a good sign. Sounds like he's more of a scoring point guard, and more of a scorer than a shooter. Bassett had an offer from Arkansas, so he's not some stiff. I doubt he'd contribute much to next year's team with the size we have coming back.
Neither guy has near as much buzz around him as Allen did.
I don't know much about the current hoops class. Hester supposedly had a legit offer from Louisville, so that's a good sign. Sounds like he's more of a scoring point guard, and more of a scorer than a shooter. Bassett had an offer from Arkansas, so he's not some stiff. I doubt he'd contribute much to next year's team with the size we have coming back.
Neither guy has near as much buzz around him as Allen did.
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