This is not going to end well
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McQueery testified that Schiano witnessed Sandusky raping a kid back in the '90s. I'm sure Urb is excited to deal with those questions.
The more that comes out on this today, the more you have to suspect that this probably stretches beyond Penn State. It sounds like Sandusky was basically openly preying on kids at Penn State and at his charity.
You are right. However, it shows how sick they are in worshiping a coach like they do. BTW, I have never ever seen a fan base that worshiped a coach like that cult does up there. It is unreal. Even Bama doesn't love Bryant like these propeller heads love JoePa.
Buddy, I say this with no snark and no hidden agenda. We saw the same kind of worship you FSU fans had for Bowden. At least before his six year swoon.
No, I am NOT trying to say Bowden, for all his many faults, did anything close to being as despicable as what Paterno is accused of doing. (assuming Paterno is guilty of turning a willful bind eye to sex abuse of children.)
But the level of worship seemed to me to be every bit as sycophantic.
Not even close. I think you may be ignorant of the scope of this.
Take a look at the reaction when Paterno was fired. Students rioted, the alumni went berserk and all the alumni elected members of the BOT were voted out and ALL of them now are the "Joe did nothing wrong" crowd. One of them, Anthony Lubrano, is trying to get the names of those who talked to Freeh so they can be harassed. Another alum is funding a slander lawsuit from one of the indicted administrators against Freeh! Not only that but both the Governor and the Attorney General were voted out of office by mostly Penn State fans. The Governor participated in the firing of Joe as a member of the BOT. Could you see this happening for Bowden? Really?
You saw nothing like this when Bowden was fired. Of course we loved him and for good reasons but most of us knew it was time for him to go.
Not so with the Joe fans. They think this guy was totally innocent and should NOT have been fired. I have been to Happy Valley, twice. It is like a cult there. Mainly because it is isolated and there is nothing around it. Even Gainesville has more to offer than there.
Yeah, I know Gators like to try and compare Bobby to the fandom of Joe but pal it ain't even close in any way and never was.
Paterno had four losing seasons in a row! The president asked him to step down and he threw him out of his house. Bobby had only won losing season (his first) and even in his bad years still had winning seasons and went to bowl games.
As much as fans loved him they would NEVER have tolerated that. No Joe and those fans up there are quite something and that is why (like the Roman Catholic Church scandal) that so many knew and did nothing. Quite scary.
LSAO. sadgator seriously almost fell out of his chair when he read this post...never seen one so ironic or hypocritical in the past 10 years or so... "St. Bobby"....C'mon man, just c'mon.
The best part of this post is your use of the word ignorant....classic man, just classic....
I am not trying to equate Bowden and Paterno at all. But I am comparing the blind support of the two fans bases. I submit that FSU fans were and apparently still are just as blindly supportive of Bowden as PSU fans are of Paterno.
Now, let's get something clear first. Bowden is not even in the same hemisphere as Paterno, from a wrong doing stand point. Not even close. The transgressions, the willful and maybe unwillful omissions of supervisory oversight that both men were party to are not remotely comparable. Compared to Paterno, Bowden was indeed the Saint most FSU fans claim he always was and still is. But only by comparison.
However, when we consider the wrong doing that did occur during the Bowden reign, both from a NCAA violations and from a criminal conduct committed by his players, most of the FSU fan base was, and judging from your reaction, apparently still is in denial of his many transgressions. You are turning a blind eye to him turning a blind eye. He wasn't the Saint you guys try and make him out to be.
Now, most of you FSU fans will hold your breath till you are blue to try and convince us otherwise. You will claim he never crossed any kind of line in managing his program or his players. Of course, this will allow us to travel down memory lane. What else is there to do in the off season? And as you rise to Bowden's defense, with every word you will confirm what the what we are saying.
Shall we begin?
Now, let's get something clear first. Bowden is not even in the same hemisphere as Paterno, from a wrong doing stand point. Not even close. The transgressions, the willful and maybe unwillful omissions of supervisory oversight that both men were party to are not remotely comparable. Compared to Paterno, Bowden was indeed the Saint most FSU fans claim he always was and still is. But only by comparison.
However, when we consider the wrong doing that did occur during the Bowden reign, both from a NCAA violations and from a criminal conduct committed by his players, most of the FSU fan base was, and judging from your reaction, apparently still is in denial of his many transgressions. You are turning a blind eye to him turning a blind eye. He wasn't the Saint you guys try and make him out to be.
Now, most of you FSU fans will hold your breath till you are blue to try and convince us otherwise. You will claim he never crossed any kind of line in managing his program or his players. Of course, this will allow us to travel down memory lane. What else is there to do in the off season? And as you rise to Bowden's defense, with every word you will confirm what the what we are saying.
Shall we begin?
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Clearly no similarities at all...well proven...
Whatever man.
http://www.cocanet.org/outdoorart/murals-and-windows/13087511
...classic.
This is vintage MJ...come on man, so you basically make a statement and end it with the the claim that anyone who dares to challenge you somehow "confirms" your statement!?
Well, that's very interesting...
Before anyone begins any explanation at all : how in in way could a defense of one's coach equal the confirmation/ validation of your claim? A totally asinine presumption with zero correlation. So with that I'll begin. Our coach could beat up your coach.
Actually we have a serious serious case of agreement here. I can't speak for all FSU fans of course but *I* have never maintained Bobby Bowden was a "saint" and I doubt he would agree to such a name either. I think that came from a book some media type wrote about him in the 90s.
However, I am glad you are at least honest enough to admit that Bobby is not in the same universe as JoePa regarding character.
Did bad things happen under Bobby's watch? ROFL of course they did as they do with any other program or coach (including your coaches). Nevertheless, he didn't cover up child abuse by one of his coaches either.
As to comparing the two fanbases (PSU and FSU) I still think you aren't fully informed about Nittany Nation. That they were able to topple a Governor, elect a AG to investigate Sandusky's investigation (which showed nothing) and almost topple their entire BOT because they were pissed Paterno got fired makes the most rabid FSU fan look anemic. If you care about it, go over to BWI rivals message board and look at some of the conspiracy theories they post there and you will think you've hit Area 51.
No, we love Bobby but PSU fans worship JoePa. In spite of what he did.
I have long held that the worst Rivals board in the land is Blue & White (the Penn State) board. And I am speaking as Nole who mostly dislikes Warchant.
Warchant is East Germany, with sniper guards and informants maintaining strict order. Blue & White is a cannibal cult that only exists on an isolated Pacific island, where visitors end up with their dismembered limbs on a kebab, over an open flame, surround guys wearing animal guns dancing around and beating animal skin drums.
Warchant is East Germany, with sniper guards and informants maintaining strict order. Blue & White is a cannibal cult that only exists on an isolated Pacific island, where visitors end up with their dismembered limbs on a kebab, over an open flame, surround guys wearing animal guns dancing around and beating animal skin drums.
And yet here are members of the nolie cult telling us emphatically how they are in no way like the PSU fans......any tiny thing that may appear to be negative toward their only reason for living and they pounce.....next week if the negative issue is fan bases that don't support their coach the nolies will show up here to tell us how nobody backed their coach like noles.....naturally most of them won't get this.....
You have a huge stained glass window mural of Bowden at your stadium as if it is a house of worship and you want to throw stones at another fan base for their devotion to their former coach...
Seriously, let's get real, we all love our "guys," but how many programs have coaches memorialized in stained glass.
Your attempt to deny the recognition of the similarity is absurd.
Perhaps some distinction in the level of fanatic devotion can be made when considering that Bobby Bowden's supporters are not ignoring such a heinous scandal as Penn St. produced. Statues, stadium/field/ athletic center namings, murals, and such are all about equal in my estimation and worth about the same as well.
We have a stained glass arts program. There are tons of commissioned windows all over campus.
We're certainly not on Penn State's level. Nobody is. It was a cult of personality. Paterno wasn't winning football games, but he stayed on because of their belief in his moral superiority. Even now they can't get over him. They'd rather watch their program burn, than admit he wasn't who they thought he was.
sadgator would agree with you that FSU fans' devotion to Bowden was not quite as strong as that of PSU to Joe Pa. A large segment of FSU fans did, in fact, turn their backs on Bowden as he was being kicked out the door. (Wink emoji).
I'm glad to see you've come round to my way of thinking. Imagine the Governor of Florida being voted out of office because he didn't support Bobby staying on as coach. Imagine the same for the AG of the state. Becomes kind of scary.
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Have to enjoy the irony of the " fanatic devotion" to " kicked out the door" in one sentence. Well done.
Good for you
I never said they were. This was a straw man argument you nole fans introduced.
Bowden presided under at least two new rules regarding players. One is called the Deon rule. The other is the rule for a charged felony. And his public defense of a former player convicted of serial rapes was inexcusable. As was his defense of another rapist from another campus. And how mnay times did he preside over major NCAA violations? Three? four?
Perhaps. But that maybe be more because Florida is divided by three or more major programs while Pennsylvania has one, maybe two.
That is only because Bobby left FSU with a series of six straight loses to Florida. And overall, a tattered program. So much so that he had to be fired.
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So, cannibals vs totalitarians?
Cannibals are mere hungry savages. Totalitarians are supposedly civilized, but are ones that consciously attempt to oppress others.
Not that sadgator would deny that we love Steve...the statue celebrates his contribution as a heisman trophy winning player. We do not have a statute or homage spot for Steve as a coach that is on the stained glass mural level.
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