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"The Hunting Ground" is a complete piece of crap

Apr 7, 2010
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Slate (which is not what you'd call a conservative publication) wrote this article about the "documentary."

How The Hunting Ground Blurs the Truth

It seems that almost everything the film depicts about one of the four cases examined is completely inaccurate.

Additionally, 19 Harvard Law professors have blasted it as being inaccurate.

I know the Usual Suspects--both Gator fans and Retards, er, I mean Nole Fans--have adamant opinions about what happened concerning another case examined in this "documentary," but consider that the whole movie is a hit piece written in the same vein as Rolling Stone's story (how appropriate is that term?) about the UVA gang rape that never actually happened.
 
I think most sane people figured it out pretty quickly that it was a hit job with an agenda. I do know JW's attorney has given CNN fair warning. Since I gather you are from the J.D. world, what is your take on the chances of JW winning a defamation case against CNN for airing the fraudulent film?
 
Since I gather you are from the J.D. world, what is your take on the chances of JW winning a defamation case against CNN for airing the fraudulent film?


lebowski.gif
 
I think most sane people figured it out pretty quickly that it was a hit job with an agenda. I do know JW's attorney has given CNN fair warning. Since I gather you are from the J.D. world, what is your take on the chances of JW winning a defamation case against CNN for airing the fraudulent film?

Not good.

CNN will employ a huge law firm if Winston actually sues. They'll bury Winston's lawyers in paper. When you sue a huge corporation you'd better be prepared for protracted and expensive litigation.

The other Winston--the one referenced in the links--has a better case.

To prove libel (libel is in writing or media presentation while slander is by word) against a public person then you must show a reckless disregard for the truth. When a retired Florida Supreme Court justice rules in a student conduct case that he doesn't find either party (Winston or Kinnaman) to be credible then proving that reckless disregard for the truth is a tall order.
 
I know Winston is a total dirt bag and probably did something very wrong but when you actually look at the evidence in that case it is pretty weak imo even for her to win the civil case. I still cant believe her lawyers allowed her to talk in that FSU hearing since they knew it could be used in the civil case (I think it can anyway). When that judge was questioning her it seemed she was more concerned with trying to convince him she wasn't some easy girl even though she was shown to have her boyfriends and Winston's samples on her (she brought that point up) at the same time and left that bar willingly with them. Her friends statement to the police did her no favors either. I think that FSU case testimony dooms her civil case against him if he doesn't settle with her in addition to it being weak in the first place.
 
Not good.

CNN will employ a huge law firm if Winston actually sues. They'll bury Winston's lawyers in paper. When you sue a huge corporation you'd better be prepared for protracted and expensive litigation.

The other Winston--the one referenced in the links--has a better case.

To prove libel (libel is in writing or media presentation while slander is by word) against a public person then you must show a reckless disregard for the truth. When a retired Florida Supreme Court justice rules in a student conduct case that he doesn't find either party (Winston or Kinnaman) to be credible then proving that reckless disregard for the truth is a tall order.

I worked for AT&T business for several years and after deliberate disputes from customers, their motto was our lawyers are the best lawyers money can buy. "We have a room full of lawyers waiting to be called... It's time we give them something to do." I had a customer who we owed a $300,000 credit and this was a quote directly out of the VP for the Southeast areas mouth. They loved to push the envelop and my boss would always try to convince customers it wasn't worth their time and money if the credit wasn't substantial. Corporate lawyers will literally bleed smaller business dry until they settle. I don't care who Winston hires, CNN will win that battle 99% of the time simply based on their legal firepower.
 
Didn't one of the filmmakers get caught editing Wikipedia in order to support the films claims?

Yep they sure was busted. Erica was pimped by these filmmakers and she didn't even realize it. They are true scumbags. She sat there on that film and told a completely different story than the one she told at the COC hearing. And the COC version was different than what she told police. And the police version was different than what she told the State Attorney. And the State Attorney version was different than what she told her friends. Smh
 
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Her attorneys must be hoping that when the civil case gets going, the Bucs management will pressure Jameis to settle. They've already offered settlement terms before, and were rejected.
 
Raking Jameis over the coals publicly for years will probably work against her when trying to extract a settlement.

What incentive does Jameis have to settle now? Half the country thinks he's a rapist anyway. This seems unlikely to change. She's already thrown her hand. The threat of bad PR to extract concessions is more effective BEFORE the actual bad PR is released, not after.

Other than the off chance that she wins her suit and gets a colossal award, Jameis has nothing to fear at this point. He might as well just settle into a war of attrition. He can certainly afford it.
 
I know Winston is a total dirt bag and probably did something very wrong but when you actually look at the evidence in that case it is pretty weak imo even for her to win the civil case. I still cant believe her lawyers allowed her to talk in that FSU hearing since they knew it could be used in the civil case (I think it can anyway). When that judge was questioning her it seemed she was more concerned with trying to convince him she wasn't some easy girl even though she was shown to have her boyfriends and Winston's samples on her (she brought that point up) at the same time and left that bar willingly with them. Her friends statement to the police did her no favors either. I think that FSU case testimony dooms her civil case against him if he doesn't settle with her in addition to it being weak in the first place.

El oh el.
 
Winston has a lot more to lose by settling than he does by going to trial. As has been said, she made a mistake trying to put this case in the media and the public like she did. Number one, she has a weak case anyway that has been rejected by law enforcement and an independent retired Supreme Court judge at the Code of Conduct hearing.

The standard in Civil Cases is preponderance of evidence which is the same standard of evidence as in the Code of Conduct hearing. She has told multiple stories. She just doesn't have much of a chance in my opinion if it goes to trial as long as Winston's lawyers handle the case competently. Winston has more to gain in his reputation by going to trial and winning than by settling. She overplayed her hand and showed her cards too soon.
 
Winston has a lot more to lose by settling than he does by going to trial. As has been said, she made a mistake trying to put this case in the media and the public like she did. Number one, she has a weak case anyway that has been rejected by law enforcement and an independent retired Supreme Court judge at the Code of Conduct hearing.

The standard in Civil Cases is preponderance of evidence which is the same standard of evidence as in the Code of Conduct hearing. She has told multiple stories. She just doesn't have much of a chance in my opinion if it goes to trial as long as Winston's lawyers handle the case competently. Winston has more to gain in his reputation by going to trial and winning than by settling. She overplayed her hand and showed her cards too soon.

You're obviously not a lawyer.

Besides, Winston's reputation is already pretty bad. Even if you completely believe his version of the facts it paints him as ungentlemanly at best and a despicable person at worst. Having sex with women who have been drinking and have a diminished capacity for making decisions is not the sort of person you want pitching advertisements for your products.

By the way, the word out of Tampa Bay is that he's bringing strippers to his home for sex. Is he paying them? That's the implication. Whatever you think of the morality of this behavior, most of society doesn't favor it.

Finally, you guys keep missing (either because you're dumbasses or being intentionally obtuse), but former Justice Harding found BOTH Winston and Kinsman to be short on credibility. That speaks well for neither of them.

Yes, Kinsman may very well be lying (or her memory could be so poor from that night due to the amount of alcohol she consumed), but Winston certainly isn't seen as bastion of light and purity by all those in authority not actually employed by FSU that have examined the case.
 
As I've said before, Winston did himself ZERO favors by acting as if there were no allegations against him...whether it be out of naivety or arrogance, continuing to milk his Publix "hook-up", shouting profanities down stairwells, etc., did not bode well for him.

Had he "channeled his inner Monk" and had ZERO other incidents (which was well within his ability), I think he could have swayed public opinion in his favor. Aside from Cook in the off-season, it's been nice not having the media camped out in Talley.
 
By the way, the word out of Tampa Bay is that he's bringing strippers to his home for sex. Is he paying them?

Lol and smh. Good ole Ghost. We sure miss ya lol

Yes, Kinsman may very well be lying (or her memory could be so poor from that night due to the amount of alcohol she consumed)

Well in her COC hearing she says she was in her right mind as did her friends. She told Justice Harding that she left with Winston not because she was drunk or drugged, but because she was afraid of him. Justice Harding reminded her of the fact that there were dozens of people outside including club security and uniformed cops and asked did she make an attempt to let them know she was pretty much being taken against her will. She said no she didn't, she was so afraid of him that she just went ahead and got in the cab. As far as the drunk or drugged part, you have to watch the Hunting Ground to get that story.
 
You're obviously not a lawyer.

Besides, Winston's reputation is already pretty bad. Even if you completely believe his version of the facts it paints him as ungentlemanly at best and a despicable person at worst. Having sex with women who have been drinking and have a diminished capacity for making decisions is not the sort of person you want pitching advertisements for your products.

By the way, the word out of Tampa Bay is that he's bringing strippers to his home for sex. Is he paying them? That's the implication. Whatever you think of the morality of this behavior, most of society doesn't favor it.

Finally, you guys keep missing (either because you're dumbasses or being intentionally obtuse), but former Justice Harding found BOTH Winston and Kinsman to be short on credibility. That speaks well for neither of them.

Yes, Kinsman may very well be lying (or her memory could be so poor from that night due to the amount of alcohol she consumed), but Winston certainly isn't seen as bastion of light and purity by all those in authority not actually employed by FSU that have examined the case.

I know you're trolling, but I would love to know where this word of strippers is coming from?

Crossing my fingers & hoping it came from a Burger King or old Eckerds parking lot.
 
I know you're trolling, but I would love to know where this word of strippers is coming from?

Crossing my fingers & hoping it came from a Burger King or old Eckerds parking lot.


I want to know if he banged the strippers before the Tennessee game or the Philadelphia game?? Depending on the answer, I got a plan! lol
 
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I know you're trolling, but I would love to know where this word of strippers is coming from?

Crossing my fingers & hoping it came from a Burger King or old Eckerds parking lot.

I'm not trolling. I've been told by lawyers I know in the Tampa Bay area that he is doing it.

I have several sports agents' cell phone numbers on speed dial.

I know a bunch of cops.

Lawyers know about a city's dirty underbelly and what happens behind closed doors because when people get caught with their hands in the cookie jar guess what those people do?
 
I'm not trolling. I've been told by lawyers I know in the Tampa Bay area that he is doing it.

I have several sports agents' cell phone numbers on speed dial.

I know a bunch of cops.

Lawyers know about a city's dirty underbelly and what happens behind closed doors because when people get caught with their hands in the cookie jar guess what those people do?

Well then I guess this will surface soon as fact.

You might know lawyers, agents & cops in Tampa, but I doubt you're willing to shell the thousands of dollars that TMZ is willing to get ahold of such information.
 
Please lock this thread. So, Dottie wont let you talk about this on whinechant so you Nolies come to the Gator site? Get this crap out of here. Winston is pure scum and I hope it costs him millions.
 
Please lock this thread. So, Dottie wont let you talk about this on whinechant so you Nolies come to the Gator site? Get this crap out of here. Winston is pure scum and I hope it costs him millions.

You wanna lock threads then you shouldn't have flamed out when you were a mod. You may be a Gator fan, but you're as big of an asshat as many of the Nole posters.

I started this thread. Unlike you, I'm not an over-the-top orange-and-blue glasses wearing super homer.
 
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You wanna lock threads then you shouldn't have flamed out when you were a mod. You may be a Gator fan, but you're as big of an asshat as many of the Nole posters.

I started this thread. Unlike you, I'm not an over-the-top orange-and-blue glasses wearing super homer.

Standing ovation!
 
Jameis Winston had quite a Sunday. He threw five touchdown passes in the afternoon and was convincingly accused of rape that night.

I say "convincingly" based on "The Hunting Ground," the documentary on campus rape. Despite threats from Winston's legal team, CNN showed the controversial film.

I say "controversial" based on the criticism. It's coming not only from FSU types but from Harvard types who claim "The Hunting Ground" distorted a case on their campus.

For the record, I am neither pro-rape nor pro-Winston. Though I wouldn't go as far as Hillary Clinton, who tweeted Sunday that "Every survivor of sexual assault deserves to be heard, believed and supported."

I'm also no legal scholar, though I'm pretty sure accusers don't have the right to be believed. If they did, the 2006 Duke lacrosse team, UF quarterback Treon Harris and Hillary's husband might be in jail today.

Women definitely have the right to be heard, however. So I'm glad a worldwide audience saw Erica Kinsman tell her version of events with Winston.

The problem is the filmmakers ignored the other side of every story they documented. And they're proud of it.

"I see myself as both an activist and a filmmaker," director Kirby Dick told DePaul's student newspaper.

That means standard practices of journalism and fairness don't apply. The goal is not to inform but to persuade.

Fair enough. But what if someone gave Kinsman such cinematic treatment?

Instead of suing CNN, Winston should hire a slick director to make "The Hunting Ground II" using the same techniques.

The foundation of the original film is a dubious study that found 20 percent of college women are sexually assaulted. Even the study's author said the findings are not indicative of reality.

HG II should just claim 20 percent of sexual-assault claims are false.

A producer sent Kinsman an email saying, "this is a film project very much in the corner of advocacy for victims, so there would be no insensitive questions or the need to get the perpetrator's side."

But the producer would officially ask Winston for an interview.

"I'm sure he will say no, and then I want him to have a gap of a couple of weeks to get complacent because then we will ambush him."

Imagine if HG II did that to Kinsman?

Kinsman said she was drugged. The film does not mention that two toxicology reports found no drugs in her system.

It glosses over the three investigations that cleared Winston. It doesn't note that a state attorney said Kinsman was not "a witness that we believed we could put on the stand and vouch for."

What if Willie Meggs said that about Winston and HG II left it out?

Producers asked FSU to comment after the film had been submitted to the Sundance Film Festival. They somehow kept a straight face when claiming they'd re-edit the film to get in opposing points of view.

When FSU and Winston scoffed, producers accused them of trying to cover up their incompetence and blaming the victim.

After submitting itself for Oscar consideration, HG II could seek comment from Kinsman and then say she's blaming the victim – Winston.

A person who worked on "The Hunting Ground" accessed Winston's online Wikipedia entry and deleted information that backed his claims and altered language about court decisions.

How would the Sundance crowd feel if Kinsman's Wikipedia page were sabotaged?

Then at last, "The Hunting Ground" cued the Lady Gaga soundtrack and got a prime-time spot on "The Most Trusted Name in News."

HG II could try that, though I can't really envision CNN going along.

The network would rightly say that even documentaries should have some semblance of balance when they accuse people of life-altering crimes.

Unless, of course, one of those people threw five touchdowns that day.

Then forget the right to be believed. That guy wasn't even granted the right to be heard.

dwhitley@orlandosentinel.com
 
You're obviously not a lawyer.

Besides, Winston's reputation is already pretty bad. Even if you completely believe his version of the facts it paints him as ungentlemanly at best and a despicable person at worst. Having sex with women who have been drinking and have a diminished capacity for making decisions is not the sort of person you want pitching advertisements for your products.

By the way, the word out of Tampa Bay is that he's bringing strippers to his home for sex. Is he paying them? That's the implication. Whatever you think of the morality of this behavior, most of society doesn't favor it.

Finally, you guys keep missing (either because you're dumbasses or being intentionally obtuse), but former Justice Harding found BOTH Winston and Kinsman to be short on credibility. That speaks well for neither of them.

Yes, Kinsman may very well be lying (or her memory could be so poor from that night due to the amount of alcohol she consumed), but Winston certainly isn't seen as bastion of light and purity by all those in authority not actually employed by FSU that have examined the case.
You keep saying this but it isn't true. Justice Hardin simply said that neither could be found more credible than the other. Here's his exact quote "As summarized in the preceding paragraphs, the evidence regarding the events that unfolded between you and (the woman) once in your room is irreconcilable," Harding wrote. "In light of all the circumstances, I do not find the credibility of one story substantially stronger than that of the other. Both have their own strengths and weaknesses. I cannot find with any confidence that the events as set forth by you, (the woman), or a particular combination thereof is more probable than not as required to find you responsible for a violation of the Code."

What you are claiming is patently false, it isn't semantics either, your version is just BS.
 
You keep saying this but it isn't true. Justice Hardin simply said that neither could be found more credible than the other. Here's his exact quote "As summarized in the preceding paragraphs, the evidence regarding the events that unfolded between you and (the woman) once in your room is irreconcilable," Harding wrote. "In light of all the circumstances, I do not find the credibility of one story substantially stronger than that of the other. Both have their own strengths and weaknesses. I cannot find with any confidence that the events as set forth by you, (the woman), or a particular combination thereof is more probable than not as required to find you responsible for a violation of the Code."

What you are claiming is patently false, it isn't semantics either, your version is just BS.

Where'd you pull the quote? I mean from which news article did it come?

Because here is the same language from Harding's order with different parenthetical insertions than from the one you selected to use. The below quote is from USA Today:

"I cannot find with any confidence that the events as set forth by (Winston and the woman) or a particular combination thereof is more probable than not as required to find you responsible for a violation of the Code," Harding wrote to Winston. "Therein lies the determinative factor of my decision."

So in the one you used the reporter decided to insert "(the woman)" in the sentence "I cannot find with any confidence that the events as set forth by you, or a particular combination thereof is more probable than not as required to find you responsible for a violation of the Code."

Compare that with the article I above quoted which at the same place inserted "(Winston and the woman)" and removed the word "You."

The same phrasing that USA Today used is also used by the Tampa Bay Times.

NPR points to the same language I do as evidence that neither side was believed by Harding.

Here's how the Orlando Sentinel handled that passage, and properly used brackets instead of parentheticals to indicate to the reader that the newspaper added the terms itself:

Harding later stated, "the evidence regarding the events that unfolded between you and [the accuser] once in your room are irreconcilable. In light of all the circumstances, I do not find the credibility of one story substantially stronger than that of the other. Both have their own strengths and weaknesses. I cannot find with any confidence that the events as set forth by you, [the accuser] or a particular combination thereof is more probable than not as required to find you responsible for violations of the code. Therein lies the determinative factor of my decision."

Do you get the point? Since I doubt your analytical reasoning (not to mention your intellectual honesty), I will be break it down for you. You are hanging your entire argument on a parenthetical insertion in a single news story. In other words, the insertion of (the woman) isn't something Harding wrote. It's something a reporter (was it really a reporter or an employee of a website like Warchant?) inserted into the quote in an attempt to color it. It is not something that other media sources seem to have done.

So you just keep grasping that with your pea brained Nole thinking of yours if it helps you sleep at night.

The alternative of course is you just can't read. Reading comprehension seems to be in short supply with your brethren. How anyone can read a disjunctive series--no matter what pronouns or proper nouns are used--and get anything from the sentence "I cannot find with any confidence that the events as set forth by you, [the accuser] or a particular combination thereof is more probable than not as required to find you responsible for violations of the code" other than "I don't find either of you to be credible" is beyond me. Because no matter how you slice it, that is what that sentence means.
 
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Wow, all that writing and you still didn't make a dent in the argument, it's just a bunch of semantical nonsense and ad homenin attacks. Perhaps you should get your jimmies unrustled before proceeding.

Harding said he couldn't find either side more credible than the other. That is far cry from saying that neither party is credible.
 
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