The Great White Lie

[fatman76]

Facts are facts. Math is science. There's no sense in debating the numbers, the debate should surround why...why is it so important to push such a polarizing narrative? What's the end goal?

WALSH: Race-Baiting Media Sounds Alarm Over ‘White Violence.’ Here Are The Facts They Won’t Tell You.

The events of the last few weeks seem to have sparked a renewed conversation about the threat posed by, in the words of a recent USA Today headline, “white violence.” Despite the fact that the Boulder shooter wasn’t even white (though all of his victims were) and a lack of evidence that the...

www.dailywire.com

 

[kalimgoodman]

Facts are facts. Math is science. There's no sense in debating the numbers, the debate should surround why...why is it so important to push such a polarizing narrative? What's the end goal?

WALSH: Race-Baiting Media Sounds Alarm Over ‘White Violence.’ Here Are The Facts They Won’t Tell You.

The events of the last few weeks seem to have sparked a renewed conversation about the threat posed by, in the words of a recent USA Today headline, “white violence.” Despite the fact that the Boulder shooter wasn’t even white (though all of his victims were) and a lack of evidence that the...

www.dailywire.com

A white man defending his race. I get it, and he is correct about the media getting it wrong. The one thing he left out or missed is that per the FBI, hate crimes are done by mostly by white males.

Hate Crime

ucr.fbi.gov

 

[LauderdaleNole]

Be careful.
Per the FBI, the five racial designations in the Hate Crime Statistics Program are: White, Black or African American, American Indian or Alaska Native, Asian, and Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander.
Where are Hispanics?

Race

In 2019, race was reported for 6,406 known hate crime offenders. Of these offenders:

• 52.5 percent were White.
• 23.9 percent were Black or African American.
• 6.6 percent were groups made up of individuals of various races (group of multiple races).
• 1.1 percent were American Indian or Alaska Native.
• 0.9 percent (58 offenders) were Asian.
• 0.3 percent (22 offenders) were Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander.
• 14.6 percent were unknown

Ethnicity

Ethnicity was reported for 5,443 known hate crime offenders. Of these:

• 33.1 percent were in the ethnic category Not Hispanic or Latino.
• 10.0 percent were Hispanic or Latino.
• 1.9 percent were groups made up of individuals of various ethnicities (group of multiple ethnicities).
• 55.0 percent were of unknown ethnicity.

 

[fatman76]

A white man defending his race. I get it, and he is correct about the media getting it wrong. The one thing he left out or missed is that per the FBI, hate crimes are done by mostly by white males.

Hate Crime

ucr.fbi.gov

I’m not defending or attacking anyone’s race. I'm asking why we can't be honest about math and data.

I'd also like to point out that the definition of motive isn't as nearly clear cut as counting who killed whom. If hate crimes committed by white people against minorities is so pervasive and dangerous, why is it not reflected in the murder statistics by race? Are white people good at racially motivated attacks but crappy at killing people? It doesn't add up.

And I think it's fair, based on current culture and the exact false narratives that I'm concerned about, to consider there might be bias in how crimes are recorded when it comes to ethnic, religious and other types of hate crimes.

Also, percentages a fine but dig into the absolute value of the numbers. Obviously we'd agree that 1 is too many, but the scale is still important. In 2019 there were 2319 racially motivated offenses against black people (note, it does not define the ethnicity of the attacker, but let's assume for argument's sake that every single one was committed by white people...which we both know can't be the case).

There are approximately 41MM African Americans living in the US in 2019. There were 2319 incidents of racially motivated attacks against them. That means the average Black person in the US stands a 0.0057% chance of being involved in a racially motivated attack.

Table 1

ucr.fbi.gov

Same issue with white cops killing unarmed black men. We're led to believe that cops strap on the badge everyday looking to exterminate minorities. According the WaPO 2019 saw 19 unarmed black men killed by the police. Millions and millions of interactions between police and citizens, and 19 is the number? It should be pointed out that WaPO's definition of "unarmed" only counts guns (so Jacob Blake was technically unarmed when he was shot).

I'm not saying we don't need to do better. I'm not saying we don't have a massive racism problem (in many directions) in this country. I'm not saying some policemen/women don't racially profile (I've personally seen it happen). I'm saying creating narratives that aren't supported by the data makes it worse, not better. Making any race feel like they're a predator when an overwhelming majority are not is more hurtful than helpful, it only serves to create wider divisions than if we could sit down and speak to each other honestly.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

I’m not defending or attacking anyone’s race. I'm asking why we can't be honest about math and data.

So tired of dems arguing points that no one here raised.

And no, we don't have a massive racist problem in this country. In fact our race relations are far better in the US than in other areas of the world.

 

[kalimgoodman]

I’m not defending or attacking anyone’s race. I'm asking why we can't be honest about math and data.

I'd also like to point out that the definition of motive isn't as nearly clear cut as counting who killed whom. If hate crimes committed by white people against minorities is so pervasive and dangerous, why is it not reflected in the murder statistics by race? Are white people good at racially motivated attacks but crappy at killing people? It doesn't add up.

And I think it's fair, based on current culture and the exact false narratives that I'm concerned about, to consider there might be bias in how crimes are recorded when it comes to ethnic, religious and other types of hate crimes.

Also, percentages a fine but dig into the absolute value of the numbers. Obviously we'd agree that 1 is too many, but the scale is still important. In 2019 there were 2319 racially motivated offenses against black people (note, it does not define the ethnicity of the attacker, but let's assume for argument's sake that every single one was committed by white people...which we both know can't be the case).

There are approximately 41MM African Americans living in the US in 2019. There were 2319 incidents of racially motivated attacks against them. That means the average Black person in the US stands a 0.0057% chance of being involved in a racially motivated attack.

Table 1

ucr.fbi.gov

Same issue with white cops killing unarmed black men. We're led to believe that cops strap on the badge everyday looking to exterminate minorities. According the WaPO 2019 saw 19 unarmed black men killed by the police. Millions and millions of interactions between police and citizens, and 19 is the number? It should be pointed out that WaPO's definition of "unarmed" only counts guns (so Jacob Blake was technically unarmed when he was shot).

I'm not saying we don't need to do better. I'm not saying we don't have a massive racism problem (in many directions) in this country. I'm not saying some policemen/women don't racially profile (I've personally seen it happen). I'm saying creating narratives that aren't supported by the data makes it worse, not better. Making any race feel like they're a predator when an overwhelming majority are not is more hurtful than helpful, it only serves to create wider divisions than if we could sit down and speak to each other honestly.

I'm not saying you are defending. I'm saying the author is.

I am on the same page as with cops killing black men. That's fake news created by the liberal left. Now with the FBI data, it shows that white commit hate crimes the most. So let's not pretend that minorities shouldn't be fearful (if you really want to talk about the data).

 

[fatman76]

I'm not saying you are defending. I'm saying the author is.

I am on the same page as with cops killing black men. That's fake news created by the liberal left. Now with the FBI data, it shows that white commit hate crimes the most. So let's not pretend that minorities shouldn't be fearful (if you really want to talk about the data).

Apologies. Sensitive topic...re-reading your post I see what you meant.

I went back and looked at table 9 and you're right, white people are responsible for 53% of hate crimes.

But white people make up 60% of the population...and I 100% understand that's the exact same tactic as the author of the article I linked is railing about. Just a data point about propensity.

Black people make up 12.2% of the population and are responsible for 24% of hate crimes.

But we all need to be careful about "unknown race"...they are 4% of the population and account for 15% of all hate crimes. If you're walking the streets and someone's race isn't clear, don't eff with them.
(I know this isn't a joking matter, but I had to)

Again, going back to being fearful - from a data perspective I don't think you'd be worried if I told you there was a 0.0057% chance of something happening to you. But I live 10 miles from WV. I see the beards, confederate flags off the back of trucks and I hear people talk. I had to ask an assistant coach I brought on to my last little league football team to leave the last season I coached due to repeated comments...and his son was on the team. We have a ton of work to do, I don't mean to minimize that. There's a ton of ignorant people out there.

 

[fatman76]

So tired of dems arguing points that no one here raised.

And no, we don't have a massive racist problem in this country. In fact our race relations are far better in the US than in other areas of the world.

I think we both misread what he meant.

While I do think we have work to do, telling someone they're a racist because of things they don't control or who they vote for creates an artificial divide.

I'm not in a position to characterize how good or bad race relations are, I only know how I live my life and raise my kids. I also know that the data don't support much of what many assume are cold, hard facts.

But I do know that false narratives and skewed data reporting are hurting the cause and preventing progress, and it makes me crazy mad.

 

[kalimgoodman]

Apologies. Sensitive topic...re-reading your post I see what you meant.

I went back and looked at table 9 and you're right, white people are responsible for 53% of hate crimes.

But white people make up 60% of the population...and I 100% understand that's the exact same tactic as the author of the article I linked is railing about. Just a data point about propensity.

Black people make up 12.2% of the population and are responsible for 24% of hate crimes.

But we all need to be careful about "unknown race"...they are 4% of the population and account for 15% of all hate crimes. If you're walking the streets and someone's race isn't clear, don't eff with them.
(I know this isn't a joking matter, but I had to)

Again, going back to being fearful - from a data perspective I don't think you'd be worried if I told you there was a 0.0057% chance of something happening to you. But I live 10 miles from WV. I see the beards, confederate flags off the back of trucks and I hear people talk. I had to ask an assistant coach I brought on to my last little league football team to leave the last season I coached due to repeated comments...and his son was on the team. We have a ton of work to do, I don't mean to minimize that. There's a ton of ignorant people out there.

I think the concerns are legitimate but I also think that the media is making it worse by making it seem like it's only white people. As you stated before, black people are 2nd. Based on population, the odds are great with black people. In reality, based on 2018/2019 it's actually on a decline by white people and stagnant by black people. So a case can be made that it's getting better.

At the same time, it reached the 50% threshold with white people after Obama became president. Do you think that's a direct correlation?

Great mature conversation. I can handle a serious conversation with humor. It makes it easier to digest haha.

 

[fatman76]

I think the concerns are legitimate but I also think that the media is making it worse by making it seem like it's only white people. As you stated before, black people are 2nd. Based on population, the odds are great with black people. In reality, based on 2018/2019 it's actually on a decline by white people and stagnant by black people. So a case can be made that it's getting better.

At the same time, it reached the 50% threshold with white people after Obama became president. Do you think that's a direct correlation?

Great mature conversation. I can handle a serious conversation with humor. It makes it easier to digest haha.

I don't know. I bet we have different perspectives though.

It felt like to me race relations were worse when Obama was president. It felt like there were race protests (and some riots) extremely often and the subject of police violence and racist attacks was much more at the forefront. Being the only developed nation (that I am aware of) to twice elect a Black person to the highest office, it seemed off to me. I expected the opposite reaction in other words. Obama being in power should have given everyone hope that you can overcome whatever burdens you were born with.

When Trump was in office it felt like the focus shifted to how racist he was, his immigration policies and his supporters. Up until the George Floyd tragedy, it "felt" like things were moving forward. It was almost like he was a lightning rod and taking the heat off the general population.

Again, everyone sees things differently. That was just my perspective through the last two administrations. It also seems like things get more heated in election years...which leads back to my anger about the pushing of divisive narratives. There are incidents like George Floyd more often than every 4 years.

 

[kalimgoodman]

I don't know. I bet we have different perspectives though.

It felt like to me race relations were worse when Obama was president. It felt like there were race protests (and some riots) extremely often and the subject of police violence and racist attacks was much more at the forefront. Being the only developed nation (that I am aware of) to twice elect a Black person to the highest office, it seemed off to me. I expected the opposite reaction in other words. Obama being in power should have given everyone hope that you can overcome whatever burdens you were born with.

When Trump was in office it felt like the focus shifted to how racist he was, his immigration policies and his supporters. Up until the George Floyd tragedy, it "felt" like things were moving forward. It was almost like he was a lightning rod and taking the heat off the general population.

Again, everyone sees things differently. That was just my perspective through the last two administrations. It also seems like things get more heated in election years...which leads back to my anger about the pushing of divisive narratives. There are incidents like George Floyd more often than every 4 years.

That's great, I like your analysis of it. One thing I would add is Obama election did create white grievance amongst some white people and black supremacy amongst some black people.

That was one of my biggest issues with Trump, he didn't care. He was OK with getting the white grievance vote. He never did anything IMO to stop them. He made the racist people feel like they had a friend in Trump, and that's not my opinion, that's theirs.

 

[fatman76]

That's great, I like your analysis of it. One thing I would add is Obama election did create white grievance amongst some white people and black supremacy amongst some black people.

That was one of my biggest issues with Trump, he didn't care. He was OK with getting the white grievance vote. He never did anything IMO to stop them. He made the racist people feel like they had a friend in Trump, and that's not my opinion, that's theirs.

I can’t argue with that. He’d play with that fine line. It’s common to see a confederate flag sticker next to a Trump Pence sticker around these parts. Those types love him.

But there are montages of him denouncing white supremacy. The guy is a New Yorker in real estate. He’d never had made it if he couldn’t work with and respect a wide variety of people. I think the media helped him during the campaign with free publicity, and when they’d cherry pick his comments and call him a racist it helped him with that crowd too.

If you’ve watched CNN ratings since Biden has been in office, the relationship there is a dysfunctional and odd one.

 

[kalimgoodman]

I can’t argue with that. He’d play with that fine line. It’s common to see a confederate flag sticker next to a Trump Pence sticker around these parts. Those types love him.

But there are montages of him denouncing white supremacy. The guy is a New Yorker in real estate. He’d never had made it if he couldn’t work with and respect a wide variety of people. I think the media helped him during the campaign with free publicity, and when they’d cherry pick his comments and call him a racist it helped him with that crowd too.

If you’ve watched CNN ratings since Biden has been in office, the relationship there is a dysfunctional and odd one.

That's was major issue with Trump. He played that line way too much. He wants every single vote and doesn't care from who. He'll never say, like Bush (I think) said that if you're a white supremacy, don't vote for me and you have no place in this party.

Of course the media made Trump look like a racist, it was great for ratings. Studies show, people watch more then they are angry. That's why when Obama was president, Fox ratings BOOMED and when Trump was president, MSNBC ratings BOOMED. I don't Trump was/is a racist, he just don't mind that the racist love him.

CNN is struggling to find a space right now. They want to be in middle but being in the middle isn't good for ratings. It just isn't in 2021.

 

[BamaFan1137]

I cannot speak for white people but I am a white man who can speak for myself.

I didn't like Obama's politics but I did like his personality. I didn't vote for him but I would be a liar if I didn't admit that I was at least a little bit proud that a black man won a American presidential election.

OTOH, I feel like we became more divided, not less, as a result. It's easy to blame that on the extremists on both sides but at least some of that lies at the feet of the Obama administration.

While I did not agree with Obama's politics, I was hopeful, and clearly naive, that Obama's presidency would help to heal old wounds and narrow the divide.

 

[BamaFan1137]

From CNN. Yep, they're just reporting the news....the incredibly moronic, hateful, prejudiced news.

 

[theswamp15]

I'm not saying you are defending. I'm saying the author is.

I am on the same page as with cops killing black men. That's fake news created by the liberal left. Now with the FBI data, it shows that white commit hate crimes the most. So let's not pretend that minorities shouldn't be fearful (if you really want to talk about the data).

Of course it shows that. Anytime a crime is committed by a white person that involves a minority the dims push a hate crime regardless of it was. when the roles are reversed race is never mentioned as a factor. How convenient

 

[theswamp15]

 

[kalimgoodman]

Of course it shows that. Anytime a crime is committed by a white person that involves a minority the dims push a hate crime regardless of it was. when the roles are reversed race is never mentioned as a factor. How convenient

You can not make that comment in good faith because you have no idea what those crimes were. None of us do. All you/we know is numbers.

 

[theswamp15]

You can not make that comment in good faith because you have no idea what those crimes were. None of us do. All you/we know is numbers.

Correct we never do but that doesn’t stop the dims from pushing the narrative every single time. When a white is the victim of a crime nobody jumps to the hate crime conclusion. Reverse it and it’s the first thing that is pushed from MSM

 

[BlueEyedGator17]

I cannot speak for white people but I am a white man who can speak for myself.

I didn't like Obama's politics but I did like his personality. I didn't vote for him but I would be a liar if I didn't admit that I was at least a little bit proud that a black man won a American presidential election.

OTOH, I feel like we became more divided, not less, as a result. It's easy to blame that on the extremists on both sides but at least some of that lies at the feet of the Obama administration.

While I did not agree with Obama's politics, I was hopeful, and clearly naive, that Obama's presidency would help to heal old wounds and narrow the divide.

U do realize it’s Obama who stroked the division between races instead of bringing them together? U should watch the movie Uncle Tom. Really informative and supported with facts.

 

[BamaFan1137]

U do realize it’s Obama who stroked the division between races instead of bringing them together?

Not word for word, but I made that point in the post that you responded to.

 

[Sunburnt Indian]

Eight years under Obama saw black American poverty go up and home ownership go down. The U. S. Census Bureau is but one of my sources. The FBI tells me black on black crime set records.

Prior to the pandemic, minorities saw the lowest unemployment numbers ever recorded. Trump led criminal reform which had devastated black America. Pastor Darrel Scott said Trump was best for black America in his lifetime. I agree.

Biden was selected to make announcements. Not lead or make decisions. It's unlikely Biden got anywhere near a record 81 million votes.

I'm Congolese-Cherokee-Caucasian. A tri-racial isolate from the Melungeon Group. My DNA ethnicity result comes from Genelex Labs in Seattle. My parents were different colors. No doubt I'll be charged with bragging by our slow.