Tariffs
- Thread starter grandhavendiddy
- Start date
Why do taxpayers have to pay to subsidize tariffs? Why don’t we use all the billions in revenue the tariffs are generating?
Dow is not back to where it was before tariffs announced. Guess just a coincidence the recent rise coincides with delay in tariffs.
People think I’m anti Trump. I’m not. I agree that something drastic had to be done and respect Trump for taking it on. I just think this is poorly thought out. He thought this would be easy just like with everything and rushed into it.
I’m reading from a lot of pretty solid Trump supporters that this is going to be a freaking disaster for small businesses who depend on imports and for their employees. Freight traffic projected to be down 35 percent in LA which is in line with Covid impact on supply chain. I don’t know if you recall how we dealt with that but basically it involved writing blank checks from the treasury to small businesses. Are we going to do that again?
We can argue about it all we want but we’re going to see what happens. If we end up with large supply chain interruptions and layoffs, Trump will get impeached with republican support.
I certainly could be wrong. I’m pretty alarmist. Unfortunately I usually end up right though.
I’m reading from a lot of pretty solid Trump supporters that this is going to be a freaking disaster for small businesses who depend on imports and for their employees. Freight traffic projected to be down 35 percent in LA which is in line with Covid impact on supply chain. I don’t know if you recall how we dealt with that but basically it involved writing blank checks from the treasury to small businesses. Are we going to do that again?
We can argue about it all we want but we’re going to see what happens. If we end up with large supply chain interruptions and layoffs, Trump will get impeached with republican support.
I certainly could be wrong. I’m pretty alarmist. Unfortunately I usually end up right though.
The point is what we’re experiencing right now isn’t even a dip, let alone a “crash”.
Zoom out and gain some perspective. The bigger picture here is reducing the deficit, rebalancing trade deals and repatriating manufacturing to grow the middle class.
How do you do this without breaking some eggs? And none of this is realized unless idiots panic and sell.
All change causes pain. Trump doesn’t really care about support, he’s trying to do the right thing.
I’m seeing what he’s describing but we’re bringing in just enough material to keep orders filled to our customers. We’re routing and staging product in Mexico. We’re adapting and still filing orders.
I don’t see massive amounts of stock outs coming, but I do see China dealing with unclaimed materials at the port and lines being shut down.
I just think that we hold a better hand. China’s economy is a house of cards. And there’s a mutually beneficial solution to every economic problem. I don’t think Trump’s trying destroy China, he’s just trying to create better balance.
You are apoplectic.
The difference between this and Covid is we can make it all go away with the stroke of a pen. Covid was completely different.
Hey, give him a break, he’s a moron and his moronic points is all he’s got
How do you know that’s not what’s happening?
You do realize money is fungible don’t you?
I like that Trump’s been president for 100 days, the stock market is still higher than it was the week before won he won the election, we’re buried negotiate a bunch of new deals at lowers the tariffs on all of our stuff and all these other countries, there were nine, counting nine releases into the country in the last three months from the border, he’s kept every promise, Doug has saved us $900 billion, all the guy has done is everything he said he was gonna do and then some and it wouldn’t matter.
It wouldn’t matter if Trump cured cancer, give every American a brand new home and a brand new car free of cost, and solved world peace, the Democrats would be on the radio and the TV the next day, telling everybody how awful he was for doing those things.
Trump arrangement syndrome is something I used to make fun of, but I swear to God it’s real. They need to put it in the DSM.
It wouldn’t matter if Trump cured cancer, give every American a brand new home and a brand new car free of cost, and solved world peace, the Democrats would be on the radio and the TV the next day, telling everybody how awful he was for doing those things.
Trump arrangement syndrome is something I used to make fun of, but I swear to God it’s real. They need to put it in the DSM.
You’re a doctor, fix it!
The market is emotional. It overreacts to everything. Pointing to the stock market and polls is idiotic - they’re both temporary. If this all works out there will be an economic boom for a long time.
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I think they actually did add Trump derangement syndrome to the DSM if I remember correctly, lol
You certainly don’t react to the stock market day-to-day and he damn sure don’t react to polls pretty much at all, since they have not been accurate ever since the poster started to be democrats.
You react to the stock market year by year at best. As the one guy in the Trump administration said, the news sure reported when the stock market lost more points in one day than any time since 1929, but they neglected to report how it regained everything it lost and then went higher in the same month, lol
Nobody pays attention to the news anymore unless they are suffering from Trump Derangement syndrome.
Of course, they've been getting Pete ButtPlugged for years by Amazon, and their drivers are extremely overpaid anyway.
Neither one is dip shit, I was being ironical
Lol
But here’s a good description of what is actually at play, and it is a psychological phenomena.
The Psychology of Trump Derangement Syndrome
Explore the psychological roots of "Trump Derangement Syndrome" and learn coping strategies from experienced therapists in DC.
therapygroupdc.com
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I have already proven that you have ZERO clue about world events...and that it would be very advantageous for you to " read only" and educate yourself before removing all doubt. EVERYTHING is better than it was just 100 days ago. Chew on that one son....that means you choose losers to support in politics. You chose open borders and % inflation, and letting Russia invade AGAIN, and letting hamas attack Israel. Noting here is American, so what does that make you?
and the part you have NO CLUE about? BUY AMERICAN!!! But lefties love China more than they do America!
Let me educate you some more why your party is blowing up...because every one of you are not bright enough to see it. Your wide open sprint to open borders, men in womens sports and bathrooms, letting Iran come back to some real power, lack of understanding ANYTHING militarily(Afghanistan anyone?) will result in you not winning many political battles in the USA. Your party got decimated on 11/05/2024 because you installed a brain dead idiot and with the libewral news media...tried to hide it by lying about it for 4 years, until the debate left NO QUESTIONS. And your party lost Americas trust because you got caught in your lies. Until you figure this out...enjoy the bench!
I agree with this part of your post. Something absolutely has to be done. We don't know what the solution will be but we know if we do nothing, it won't be good. The good news is that if things don't go as planned, Trump will pivot quickly and try something else. There won't be any "sitting on our hands" with this Administration and I think that's what the American people are looking for. We need real leadership and somebody actually trying to fix things.
So the tariffs ARE working?
Amazing how the goalposts slid from 'tariffs will never work' to 'tariffs are a failure cause they have only generated a few billion in the first 3 weeks'.
As fatman said, drama queens. But remember....they aren't anti-Trump.
This is honestly the dumbest take possible.
If you want to say you don't like Trump's plan, you worry he is unnecessarily panicking the markets, he's being too aggressive, fine.
But to claim that he didn't think this through just screams of TDS. The man was on the political sidelines for FOUR YEARS. All he had was time to plan.
If you had actually watched his rallies, he openly discussed his plan for tariffs YEARS ago.
He launched a SELF FUNDED transition team in AUGUST. Unprecedented, that had never been done.
The level of planning is astounding. And your take is he just threw shit against the all, the markets had a few bad days, and then he had to let Bessent step in and save the day. All cause Trump didn't think this through and rushed into it.
The dumbest take possible.
Actually I’m questioning the tariff revenue numbers, or more precisely if they represent a net positive when you take costs into account, and asking the question why it’s necessary to subsidize American industry with taxpayer money if the tariffs are in fact a net positive.
I try to keep you up with the discussion Ghost, but I haven’t figured out how to type phonetically yet.
Stock market is up 5% versus this time last year. But @bradleygator and @G8trDad3 are claiming it has 'tanked' while @grandhavendiddy says his in laws are looking at their 401ks and screaming at him to fix it.
Mercy.
He doesn’t think anything through. He said he was going to get an Ukraine ceasefire immediately. He hasn’t.
He said he’d get a ceasefire in Gaza, he hasnt.
He said he’d open up the Red Sea. He hasn’t,
He said people were lining up for trade deals with us. They’re not.
The point is all these things are extremely hard. You can’t just make them happen by executive order.
Then when he can’t deliver, he looks like a clown to everyone but the maga voters, who let’s be honest, aren’t the most demanding crew. No matter how badly he screws up, all he has to do is hold up a picture of a Latin person and say he’s a gang member, or hold up a picture of a purple haired tranny.
Curious if you understand how a tariff actually works.
Simple example. I make whirligigs at a cost of 5.00. ching chang chung enterprises in China makes them for 2.50 and imports them. Trump charges them 100 percent tariff to help me stay competitive. People can still by the Chinese product if trry want but its going to cost the same.
I commented early in this thread but hopefully the below helps some of the Trump tactic doubters understand how negotiations work. However, to open I’ll just say no one knows what the end result will be, and the short and long term impacts on the US economy.
1) No one and I mean no one, starts a major contract negotiation on this scale to improve their position without having leverage and a goal to improve their situation of a current trade agreement. However, when you control over 50% of the world’s consumption power, you are in a position of strength, regardless of debt.
2) Tariff use is only the front end attention getter. Not only are they effective in getting your current Trade partner’s attention which you’re trying to remedy issues with, it lets the others you’re not currently trading with have to have an opportunity in prospecting their alternative options to you.
3) During the negotiations, there will be lots of posturing from both sides of the table. As new alternative options emerge for Trump and the other side sees this (foreign investment, new trade partners, and better negotiated trade deals with smaller partners removing or reducing tariffs from their markets etc) the reliance on the bigger vested trade partners is diminished and further leverage is gained with your main Trade partners like China.
3) So new tariff/trade deals are already on the table from other countries not wanting to miss this opportunity. Foreign company investments are being made in US based production to not lose their market share and US companies are shifting production back to USA and shifting money and some jobs here. When foreign product is built here, it will reduce consumer cost either through transportation savings or working around tariff impacts to make them competitive in the US markets. Did I mention we represent over 50% of the world’s consumption power? Again, leverage.
4) Trump’s goal is not to tariff the world and make the US richer again that way. His goal is to make America’s trade deals better and the US stronger financially, that’s it How we get there is going to be a combination of things imo and all are better for the long term health of this country. I implore you to look past the legacy media fear mongering, as things are moving very positively early. We are seeing concessions on both sides as a resulting outcome. (US/China)
In closing, this isn’t about politics, it’s about business and improving our debt situation and future trade reliance outside of the US. Some foreign investment will take longer but there are both short term and long term impacts in all this. So don’t look at 5 years down the line for foreign factory production as a downside, it’s for long term gains for our country and to open discussions on other products which foreign countries tariff us on for entry today. US products will also be opened for markets in many of these countries where foreign tariff barriers have excluded them prior, again making Us companies more profitable and able to expand their global footprint.
Sit back and watch it unfold, get past your short term impacts and propaganda (see today’s market news on recession fears, lol) things will be bumpy but I can honestly say it’s going better than I expected which likely means it will get better faster too. China has to figure out how to manage it publicly with their own country as they portray a tough exterior but make no mistake about it, we represent so much buying power, they don’t want to lose it. The fact we are two of the largest production and consuming entities working together means they’ll find a way to compromise. And at this point, Trump’s improving of the US situation will not only reduce our debt quicker but set the stage for better negotiations going forward with other nations globally.
Meantime, just sit back and watch it all unfold.
1) No one and I mean no one, starts a major contract negotiation on this scale to improve their position without having leverage and a goal to improve their situation of a current trade agreement. However, when you control over 50% of the world’s consumption power, you are in a position of strength, regardless of debt.
2) Tariff use is only the front end attention getter. Not only are they effective in getting your current Trade partner’s attention which you’re trying to remedy issues with, it lets the others you’re not currently trading with have to have an opportunity in prospecting their alternative options to you.
3) During the negotiations, there will be lots of posturing from both sides of the table. As new alternative options emerge for Trump and the other side sees this (foreign investment, new trade partners, and better negotiated trade deals with smaller partners removing or reducing tariffs from their markets etc) the reliance on the bigger vested trade partners is diminished and further leverage is gained with your main Trade partners like China.
3) So new tariff/trade deals are already on the table from other countries not wanting to miss this opportunity. Foreign company investments are being made in US based production to not lose their market share and US companies are shifting production back to USA and shifting money and some jobs here. When foreign product is built here, it will reduce consumer cost either through transportation savings or working around tariff impacts to make them competitive in the US markets. Did I mention we represent over 50% of the world’s consumption power? Again, leverage.
4) Trump’s goal is not to tariff the world and make the US richer again that way. His goal is to make America’s trade deals better and the US stronger financially, that’s it How we get there is going to be a combination of things imo and all are better for the long term health of this country. I implore you to look past the legacy media fear mongering, as things are moving very positively early. We are seeing concessions on both sides as a resulting outcome. (US/China)
In closing, this isn’t about politics, it’s about business and improving our debt situation and future trade reliance outside of the US. Some foreign investment will take longer but there are both short term and long term impacts in all this. So don’t look at 5 years down the line for foreign factory production as a downside, it’s for long term gains for our country and to open discussions on other products which foreign countries tariff us on for entry today. US products will also be opened for markets in many of these countries where foreign tariff barriers have excluded them prior, again making Us companies more profitable and able to expand their global footprint.
Sit back and watch it unfold, get past your short term impacts and propaganda (see today’s market news on recession fears, lol) things will be bumpy but I can honestly say it’s going better than I expected which likely means it will get better faster too. China has to figure out how to manage it publicly with their own country as they portray a tough exterior but make no mistake about it, we represent so much buying power, they don’t want to lose it. The fact we are two of the largest production and consuming entities working together means they’ll find a way to compromise. And at this point, Trump’s improving of the US situation will not only reduce our debt quicker but set the stage for better negotiations going forward with other nations globally.
Meantime, just sit back and watch it all unfold.
100 days. Now go down the list and tell me if we are better off...or worse off.
As I do not possess the ability to communicate in writing near as well as this, I have said the same thing in my own way. Very few posting here understand negotiating. I have taught negotiating for almost 4 decades. People are taking everything Trump says literally( the people that hate him mostly)and miss the message he is trying to convey. And that is why the polls are not good now. Trump needs to communicate this better in my opinion...I am not sure he cares since he is not running again, and he KNOWS this will work and things will be much better soon. And unless you are selling your portfolio...you have lost ZERO......
Ouch. I’m humbled by your superior intellect. I’ll crawl under a rock now. lol.
From a negotiating POV, yes.
Losing - well, companies are pulling back spend due to tariffs, DOGE, which is why, in part we saw the lackluster job growth and .3 percent GDP contraction. Raises and bonuses will be less. That’s current income.
If then you pull back (which we have), it lowers growth. It can be a cycle.
Agreed on long term holdings. Bad time to sell. I bought a lot at prices not seen in years (think Mag-7)
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