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Tariffs

Sell off our debt? What are you talking about? People have to buy bonds, ie loan us money, so we can continue to pay the $37 trillion we owe.

I’m saying we need foreign countries to BUY our debt and currently they are SELLING our debt.
So...someone IS buying the debt?

A couple of days ago, we all agreed that China held too much of our debt and it was a massive problem. Trump haters said Trump had no plan for reducing the amount of Chinese ownership of our debt.

So Trump, knowing that China's economy was already teetering, raised tarifs. He used the LEVERAGE of increased tariffs against China to force them to sell off the US debt they own....which is precisely what Trump haters said needed to happen.

Yet as soon as Trump does it, it's still a bad thing.

It's honestly why I love you guys.
 
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So...someone IS buying the debt?

A couple of days ago, we all agreed that China held too much of our debt and it was a massive problem. Trump haters said Trump had no plan for reducing the amount of Chinese ownership of our debt.

So Trump, knowing that China's economy was already teetering, raised tarifs. He used the LEVERAGE of increased tariffs against China to force them to sell off the US debt they own....which is precisely what Trump haters said needed to happen.

Yet as soon as Trump does it, it's still a bad thing.

It's honestly why I love you guys.
Yeah for every seller there is a buyer. But when there are more sellers than buyers, that means prices go down (google supply and demand). It’s the same reason stocks have been crashing for the last month. People are buying all those stocks too, just for less money.

That’s why bond yields are going up. Bond prices down means yields up (that’s bad for the debt issuer). Ultimately it means you have to pay more interest (ie raise rates) to get people to keep lending you money.

Bessent thought the stock sell off would benefit bonds as people sold risk (stocks) and bought safety (bonds). So yields were supposed to come down. Then we could cut rates. But bonds started selling off along with stocks which is why Trump announced the pause. Basically it indicates that people do not see our bonds as safe. That’s why gold is going nuts.

So I’m just saying, maybe not the best idea to piss off and threaten all of your lenders, but what do I know.
 
So...someone IS buying the debt?

A couple of days ago, we all agreed that China held too much of our debt and it was a massive problem. Trump haters said Trump had no plan for reducing the amount of Chinese ownership of our debt.

So Trump, knowing that China's economy was already teetering, raised tarifs. He used the LEVERAGE of increased tariffs against China to force them to sell off the US debt they own....which is precisely what Trump haters said needed to happen.

Yet as soon as Trump does it, it's still a bad thing.

It's honestly why I love you guys.
This is hilarious. Trump outmaneuvered China into crashing our debt. That wily old fox.
 
By the way, I’m not anti Trump. And I appreciate he has the balls to take on these problems. I just think he’s being dumb about it and potentially sabotaging himself.

Trump’s weakness is that he thinks he can just speak things into existence. Sometimes he can. When it comes to overhauling global trade when you’re $37 trillion in debt, it’s a little trickier.
 
By the way, I’m not anti Trump. And I appreciate he has the balls to take on these problems. I just think he’s being dumb about it and potentially sabotaging himself.

Trump’s weakness is that he thinks he can just speak things into existence. Sometimes he can. When it comes to overhauling global trade when you’re $37 trillion in debt, it’s a little trickier.
Can you name ANYONE that has even attempted to do so? A REAL effort? I know you cannot. No one has. Give him a chance.
 
Bessent thought the stock sell off would ...
This is hilarious. Trump outmaneuvered China into crashing our debt. That wily old fox.
Trump’s weakness is that he thinks he can just speak things into existence.
Yep, old Trump and Bessent got caught flat-footed by the markets today.

Same Trump and Bessent that have been saying for months that the markets would be choppy AF for a while...were caught flat-footed by the markets being choppy.

I specifically remember Trump during a MSNBC Town Hall FIVE YEARS AGO saying the US was going to go bankrupt and it would be better to do it now and start recovering.

But yeah...Trump got caught flat-footed by all this market turmoil. Somehow it always works out that way.
 
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Yep, old Trump and Bessent got caught flat-footed by the markets today.

Same Trump and Bessent that have been saying for months that the markets would be choppy AF for a while...were caught flat-footed by the markets being choppy.

I specifically remember Trump during a MSNBC Town Hall FIVE YEARS AGO saying the US was going to go bankrupt and it would be better to do it now and start recovering.

But yeah...Trump got caught flat-footed by all this market turmoil. Somehow it always works out that way.
Well it’s like I said earlier in the thread, if the idea is to steer us into bankruptcy/debt default, they’re on the right track.
 
Well it’s like I said earlier in the thread, if the idea is to steer us into bankruptcy/debt default, they’re on the right track.
I suggest you ignore that poster. He is cousin or nephew or illegitimate son of Trump.
 
That’s welcome news. Other drug companies also announcing similar moves. I hope it translates to lower drug prices.
 
Stock market down 1k points on the day. So it gave back 33% of yesterday's gains.

Clearly, Trump's plan isn't working and he needs to stop being mean to China.
lol. What did the market do two days ago and all last week?

The funny thing is Trump thinks things are as simple as you do. Sometimes it’s a plus.
 
if the tariffs don’t get them to give in to our demands, then we should keep them on and then tell them we are not going to defend you anymore. There will be no US military tech. No more NATO. Say it publicly for friend and foe to hear it. WHEN our allies fold to our demands, we should demand that they must levy the same tariffs against china as we do. Mirror tariffs
 
if the tariffs don’t get them to give in to our demands, then we should keep them on and then tell them we are not going to defend you anymore. There will be no US military tech. No more NATO. Say it publicly for friend and foe to hear it. WHEN our allies fold to our demands, we should demand that they must levy the same tariffs against china as we do. Mirror tariffs
Bingo. That’s the next move. Slap tariffs on any country that doesn’t go after China too.

They have a massive trade surplus which has kept their house of cards economy propped up.

Decentralize manufacturing and China is cooked.
 
lol. What did the market do two days ago and all last week?

The funny thing is Trump thinks things are as simple as you do. Sometimes it’s a plus.
Things are surprisingly simple, bradley.

China is the bad guy, we are the good guys.

The goal is to beat the bad guys. I don't care if the bad guys get offended in the process.
 
Bingo. That’s the next move. Slap tariffs on any country that doesn’t go after China too.

They have a massive trade surplus which has kept their house of cards economy propped up.

Decentralize manufacturing and China is cooked.
Correctemundo. China's trade is roughly 60% exports, 40% imports. I think ours is the opposite. As you said, if they lose their exports, they are cooked.

That's leverage. It's pretty obvious how this game ends.
 
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By the way, I’m not anti Trump. And I appreciate he has the balls to take on these problems. I just think he’s being dumb about it and potentially sabotaging himself.

Trump’s weakness is that he thinks he can just speak things into existence. Sometimes he can. When it comes to overhauling global trade when you’re $37 trillion in debt, it’s a little trickier.
Replace Trump with Navarro and you get the root of the problem.

You are generally right about the bond market, but it's more. Japan, China and the UK buy our debt as a requirement of trading in U.S. dollars. If Tarrifs lower demand, then foreign demand for bonds drop. If we demand, drops you need to raise the interest rates to attract more demand.

We saw a short fall when each country was reducing their buy because tarrifs were being applied across the board.

Bessent (the adult in the room) made Trump aware, and Suzy Wiles, being the expert organizer said, "you have 70 negotiations to do...you will not be able to do them all at once." So a 90 day pause is very plausible.

Need to get to "zero-zero", realize that we will not remove all non tarriff trade barriers, get additional US investment and focus on the big things that need to happen in the states: chips, pharmaceuticals, data centers and 10-20 other key categories. Things like shoes and apparel can be made in indonesia or thailand all day long. Other things like Avocados and Coffee cannot be grown at any significant scale here.
 
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Replace Trump with Navarro and you get the root of the problem.

Bessent (the adult in the room) made Trump aware, and Suzy Wiles, being the expert organizer said, "you have 70 negotiations to do...you will not be able to do them all at once." So a 90 day pause is very plausible.
Here we go again. Trump appoints all these birdbrains, they are advising Trump and Trump is about to do something stupid, until the 'adult in the room' stepped in and stopped Trump from shooting himself in the foot.

This is the way it will go for the next 4 years, because this is the way it's gone the previous 8 years.

1 - Trump announces plan

2 - Media says its a dumb plan

3 - Plan starts to work

4 - Media says its only working because 'the adult in the room' stepped up and saved Trump from himself


It used to be John Bolton, it used to be Gen Kelly. Now apparently it's Bessent and Wiles.

Lather, rinse and repeat for the next 4 years. Or 8.
 
Here we go again. Trump appoints all these birdbrains, they are advising Trump and Trump is about to do something stupid, until the 'adult in the room' stepped in and stopped Trump from shooting himself in the foot.

This is the way it will go for the next 4 years, because this is the way it's gone the previous 8 years.

1 - Trump announces plan

2 - Media says its a dumb plan

3 - Plan starts to work

4 - Media says its only working because 'the adult in the room' stepped up and saved Trump from himself


It used to be John Bolton, it used to be Gen Kelly. Now apparently it's Bessent and Wiles.

Lather, rinse and repeat for the next 4 years. Or 8.
No.

Let's start with that his cabinet this time around is WAY better than it was before. It does not mean that every hire is perfect. Trump making a potentially bad hire is called life. Every great leader has made plenty of bad hires.

Suzy Wiles, as has been documented on this board many, many, many times, was critical in bringing execution and discipline to Trump 2.0 And it's working, in aggregate, pretty damn well.

Let's then go to the three main parts of Trump's program that is going very well:

Immigration
Inflation - now at 2.4%, pretty close to the 2% fed target
Identify politics - and it's removal


Also - Doge and reducing government spending, etc. You have seen me do the charts now 3+ time.

He's done that in under 100 days. 81 to be exact.

Left leaning MSM Media has says that all of this dumb, lucky, racist, etc. Trump has done it with some incredible hires like Tom Holman, Kristy Noem, Rubio at the state department and deporting people, etc.

On the Tarriff plan, no it was not "working perfectly". There were parts that were - getting 70 countries to start to negotiate to zero tarrifs, but even as that started to happen, Navarro, dismissed them and raised this impossible short term bar. Markets tumbled by upwards of 20% and Bond Yields, which just last Friday, you cited (as well as Chamanth and me as well) as a plus, turned up to 4.4 up from 3.9 on April 3rd. The billionaire friends who helped Trump finance his victory, lost an aggregate approaching 100B. Retireees, like my parents and my wifes parents started to get very worried. Recession fears jumped from Goldman, JPMC, etc.

I generally think that this Tariff plan and rebalancing of the economy and our trading partners will get us to a somewhat better place, but an all-out end-to-end trade war is not why a lot of people voted for Trump. We don't need Nike Dunks, 70" HDTVs for $900, Apple phones or my wife's Alo gear made in the U.S. We do need high end chip fab, pharma, oil, data centers and other critical infra made here. We need design and IP to be here.

The real dynamic here, on this board and on this thread, is not one of politics or economics but secular theology. Do people believe that Trump is infallible. I think Trump 2.0 is more impactful, yes, disciplined and better surrounded than 1.0. But, not infallible and by the way, credit Trump for seeing where this was going, getting in Bessent, Lutnick and Wiles and changing course. That is not a flaw; that is being human and leadership.
 
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No.

Let's start with that his cabinet this time around is WAY better than it was before. It does not mean that every hire is perfect. Trump making a potentially bad hire is called life. Every great leader has made plenty of bad hires.

Suzy Wiles, as has been documented on this board many, many, many times, was critical in bringing execution and discipline to Trump 2.0 And it's working, in aggregate, pretty damn well.

Let's then go to the three main parts of Trump's program that is going very well:

Immigration
Inflation - now at 2.4%, pretty close to the 2% fed target
Identify politics - and it's removal


Also - Doge and reducing government spending, etc. You have seen me do the charts now 3+ time.

He's done that in under 100 days. 81 to be exact.

Left leaning MSM Media has says that all of this dumb, lucky, racist, etc. Trump has done it with some incredible hires like Tom Holman, Kristy Noem, Rubio at the state department and deporting people, etc.

On the Tarriff plan, no it was not "working perfectly". There were parts that were - getting 70 countries to start to negotiate to zero tarrifs, but even as that started to happen, Navarro, dismissed them and raised this impossible short term bar. Markets tumbled by upwards of 20% and Bond Yields, which just last Friday, you cited (as well as Chamanth and me as well) as a plus, turned up to 4.4 up from 3.9 on April 3rd. The billionaire friends who helped Trump finance his victory, lost an aggregate approaching 100B. Retireees, like my parents and my wifes parents started to get very worried. Recession fears jumped from Goldman, JPMC, etc.

I generally think that this Tariff plan and rebalancing of the economy and our trading partners will get us to a somewhat better place, but an all-out end-to-end trade war is not why a lot of people voted for Trump. We don't need Nike Dunks, 70" HDTVs for $900, Apple phones or my wife's Alo gear made in the U.S. We do need high end chip fab, pharma, oil, data centers and other critical infra made here. We need design and IP to be here.

The real dynamic here, on this board and on this thread, is not one of politics or economics but secular theology. Do people believe that Trump is infallible. I think Trump 2.0 is more impactful, yes, disciplined and better surrounded than 1.0. But, not infallible and by the way, credit Trump for seeing where this was going, getting in Bessent, Lutnick and Wiles and changing course. That is not a flaw; that is being human and leadership.
No one thinks he is infallible. However we DO feel that one week is not enough time to see if his plan works. I am confident it will. You see, yiu and I do not know what his ultimate goal is. I have an idea, and I am sure it is different than yours. THIS IS A NEGOTIATION, not an absolute. I believe he wants much fairer trade with our allies, and wants China’s hold on everything we and others do weakened. I believe he will accomplish this, and bring back actin of manufacturing to our Country. When this happens, you tell me what happens to the stock market? I would consider that a victory, because what the F Has all the other administrations done? LOSE GROUND.
 
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No.

Let's start with that his cabinet this time around is WAY better than it was before. It does not mean that every hire is perfect. Trump making a potentially bad hire is called life. Every great leader has made plenty of bad hires.

Suzy Wiles, as has been documented on this board many, many, many times, was critical in bringing execution and discipline to Trump 2.0 And it's working, in aggregate, pretty damn well.
You're making some pretty specific claims about what IS happening in Trump's inner circle:

"Replace Trump with Navarro and you get the root of the problem."

"Bessent (the adult in the room) made Trump aware, and Suzy Wiles, being the expert organizer said, "you have 70 negotiations to do...you will not be able to do them all at once."


You have no idea if any of this is true. You are getting it from some media source, sounds like something WSJ would claim.

In order to have knowledge like this, it would need to come DIRECTLY from a key member of Trump's inner circle. It would have to come from Bessent or Wiles.

Trump's inner circle isn't going to the media and gossiping on each other. My goodness I can't believe some of you are still falling for this.

You have heaped praise on Wiles, so remember how she got the job of Trump's Chief of Staff. Her one and ONLY condition was that she controlled who had access to Trump. She did that to guarantee that there would be no stories about the internal workings of Trump's meetings.

Yet as you prove here, we still have media making up shit. And still some people like you are believing it.

Bessent has been clear in interviews that he is executing Trump's plan, not the other way around. Rubio has made similar comments.

People like me read obvious manufactured BS by the media, we pushback, and then we get hit with 'Boy you magats will defend Trump over anything, won't you? He just can't do any wrong in your eyes, can he?"

As I said, we have 4 more years of this, maybe 8. Some people will never get it.
 
I guess you know more about the economy than the multi billionaire? I am pretty sure you do not. He also has 77million more votes than you do.
Bradley is about 1-2 more record up days in the market away from going back into hiding for another 2 years. It's what he does, he's getting his trolls in now before the next exodus.
 
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Replace Trump with Navarro and you get the root of the problem.

You are generally right about the bond market, but it's more. Japan, China and the UK buy our debt as a requirement of trading in U.S. dollars. If Tarrifs lower demand, then foreign demand for bonds drop. If we demand, drops you need to raise the interest rates to attract more demand.

We saw a short fall when each country was reducing their buy because tarrifs were being applied across the board.

Bessent (the adult in the room) made Trump aware, and Suzy Wiles, being the expert organizer said, "you have 70 negotiations to do...you will not be able to do them all at once." So a 90 day pause is very plausible.

Need to get to "zero-zero", realize that we will not remove all non tarriff trade barriers, get additional US investment and focus on the big things that need to happen in the states: chips, pharmaceuticals, data centers and 10-20 other key categories. Things like shoes and apparel can be made in indonesia or thailand all day long. Other things like Avocados and Coffee cannot be grown at any significant scale here.
The administration has said multiple times, fair trade doesn't necessarily mean free trade.

Every country has a role in the global economy. Forcing 100% free trade could wreck some economies. One of the first things you learn in business is arrangements with vendors and customers have to be mutually beneficial or they don't last long.
 
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If you want to see how our “isolate China and strong arm other countries others into coming with us” works out see how well that approach worked with Russian sanctions.

it doesn’t matter what we say on here. We’ll see this play out.

Interesting that Trump and his space force commander the last two days have come out and basically alluded to the fact that we have space/alien weaponry beyond anyone’s understanding and so everybody better watch out.

We’ll see if the Chinese are buying that.
 
If you want to see how our “isolate China and strong arm other countries others into coming with us” works out see how well that approach worked with Russian sanctions.

it doesn’t matter what we say on here. We’ll see this play out.

Interesting that Trump and his space force commander the last two days have come out and basically alluded to the fact that we have space/alien weaponry beyond anyone’s understanding and so everybody better watch out.

We’ll see if the Chinese are buying that.
Not a conspiracy theorist, but Direct Energy weaponry is all the rage in those circles.

If they exist you could wipe out a country in an isolated way, meaning no nuclear clouds.
 
Not a conspiracy theorist, but Direct Energy weaponry is all the rage in those circles.

If they exist you could wipe out a country in an isolated way, meaning no nuclear clouds.
I don’t think it’s impossible either. Supposedly the math works out for teleportation but nobody has worked it out functionally. I just think it’s interesting that we’re openly alluding to it as we enter negotiations with China.
 


This guy is a good follow on the space weapons discussion. It’s possible he’s a nut, but interesting nonetheless.
 
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CNN is such a clownshow. I try to read both sides of issues but I hit this sentence and I'm done. Anyone who can't do the very minimum amount of research and understand how tariffs work (i.e. there are ALWAYS exemptions), or even worse knows better and is lying, doesn't deserve my time.

"As the rest of the world received a 90-day respite, Trump escalated tariffs on China, saying the US will now charge an extra 145% on
all Chinese goods that arrive in the US."
 
If you want to see how our “isolate China and strong arm other countries others into coming with us” works out see how well that approach worked with Russian sanctions.

it doesn’t matter what we say on here. We’ll see this play out.

Interesting that Trump and his space force commander the last two days have come out and basically alluded to the fact that we have space/alien weaponry beyond anyone’s understanding and so everybody better watch out.

We’ll see if the Chinese are buying that.
We do not need the military here. Our economic strength, mainly how much China’s economy depends on US buying their garbage is all we will need
 
China just blinked.
Trump begging for a deal at the outset, just like he did with the Ukraine cease fire. This is what I mean when I say he thinks he can just speak things into existence. He really thinks Putin or Xi are going to do an agreement because he says so. It’s in their interest to let Trump twist.

 
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