ADVERTISEMENT

Some Economic truth

Illegal-shift

Gator Great
Gold Member
Nov 30, 2021
3,614
5,099
113

The old Trump economy isn’t coming back​


Rick Newman
·Senior Columnist
Tue, Sep 10, 2024, 4:58 PM EDT6 min read

Many Americans have fond memories of the Trump economy that ran from 2017 to 2021. Inflation, interest rates, and gasoline prices were low; the stock market did well; and pre-COVID job and economic growth were solid.
The old Trump economy is a factor in the 2024 election, given that voters trust Donald Trump, the Republican presidential candidate, more on the economy than they trust his Democratic rival, Vice President Kamala Harris. And as usual, the economy is a top voter concern.

But if Trump wins a second term, anybody expecting a quick return to the Goldilocks economy of his first term is likely to be very disappointed. In a preview of Trump 2.0, Goldman Sachs estimated that the economy would shrink by half a percentage point during Trump’s first year if he imposed all of his policies, including new tariffs on imports and a business tax cut that pushed annual deficits higher. Harris’s plan, by contrast, would modestly boost GDP growth, according to Goldman.

During his first term, Trump benefited from benign economic trends dating all the way back to the Great Recession of 2008 and the slow but steady recovery that followed. The post-COVID economy is a different animal with stronger inflationary pressures, more protectionism, costlier energy, and more global turmoil likely to produce shocks. Those forces will dominate the economy during the next four years no matter who is the US president.

Many voters blame or credit the president for whatever happens on their watch. But market forces drive the economy, and presidents normally have only a marginal effect. Looking at four key indicators — inflation, interest rates, gasoline prices, and GDP growth shows that the trends under Trump were largely the same as those under his predecessor, Barack Obama. The COVID disruptions that began in 2020 changed the trajectory for all four of those metrics, as the following chart shows.

Inflation

A surge in prices since 2021 has been Biden’s biggest economic vulnerability. But Trump didn’t do anything special to keep inflation low. Except for occasional spikes in energy prices, there was no meaningful inflation from 1990 to 2021. The Federal Reserve was more concerned about deflation, given that overall price levels briefly went negative under Obama in 2015, as the chart above shows.

One huge factor keeping inflation contained for most of the last 30 years was globalization and a surge in cheap imports from China, in particular. Trump’s trade wars during his first term, when he slapped tariffs on imports, began to close the door on cheap imports. Biden kept those tariffs in place, and both Democrats and Republicans now back a tougher line on China and a renewed emphasis on boosting domestic manufacturing.

That could be good for the US economy overall, but stuff made in the USA is almost always more expensive due to higher pay and more stringent safety and environmental rules. There’s less of a built-in hedge against inflation now than there was during the peak days of globalization, which might have been around 2010 or 2015. That's not likely to change, and those cost pressures will put a higher floor under prices for many things.

Interest rates

During the Great Recession in 2008, the Federal Reserve slashed short-term rates to 0, the first time it had ever gone that low. That was shock therapy meant to jolt the economy back to life amid a financial panic and near depression. The Fed raised rates a bit from 2015 through 2019, but the lack of inflation allowed it to go slow — then slash rates to 0 again when COVID arrived in 2020.
Consumers got used to super-low interest rates, but the whole period from 2009 through 2021 was abnormal. From 1990 through 2008, the Fed's short-term rate averaged 4.25%. From 2009 to 2021, the average was 0.52%.
Consumer rates followed the same pattern. From 1990 through 2008, the average 30-year fixed mortgage rate was 7.3%. From 2009 through 2021, it was 4%. Even now, mortgage rates around 6.4% are below the historical norm. With the Fed poised to cut rates soon, consumer rates could drift down a bit. But stronger inflationary pressure than in the past will probably prevent the Fed from cutting to anywhere near the levels during the decade after the Great Recession.

Gasoline prices

During Trump’s term, gas prices averaged $2.57, compared with $3.60 so far under Biden. Even adjusted for inflation, gas prices were cheaper under Trump. But Trump didn’t do anything to lower pump prices, even though he’s a fossil fuel lover whose mantra is “drill, baby, drill.” Trump simply came into office as the fracking boom was near peak production and energy providers all around the world were overproducing.
In terms of profitability, energy was the worst-performing sector during the Trump presidency because drillers were foregoing profits to gain market share. OPEC joined that game, adding to overproduction, which pushed prices to unusually low levels. When COVID hit in 2020, energy profits collapsed along with retail prices, and the whole industry went through a shakeout.
The result is that energy firms and their investors now prioritize profitability and “capital discipline” over market share — no matter who’s the president. “Our energy team believes that it is unlikely that a Trump administration would translate into more actual drilling relative to a Harris administration,” investing firm Raymond James concluded in a Sept. 10 analysis of possible election outcomes. “A push to decrease the price of US energy could potentially disincentivize production from domestic oil and gas names.” Energy firms, in short, got burned during Trump's presidency, and they're not going to do that again.

Overall economic growth

Trump wants people to believe he presided over the “best economy in the history of our country,” but it was really about the same as during Obama’s second term. Under Obama, from 2013 through 2016, real GDP growth averaged 2.5% per quarter. Under Trump, during the three years before COVID hit, it averaged 2.8%. Including COVID, GDP growth under Trump averaged 2.4%.
Growth under Biden has been stronger, averaging 3% per quarter. But higher inflation and interest rates have more than offset that in voters’ minds. Inflation peaked at 9% in 2022, and while it’s almost back to normal, Americans still feel stung by three years of a hot economy in which cheap imports and plentiful energy no longer cushioned shocks the way they used to. This year’s presidential election isn’t likely to change that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kalimgoodman
Economy has sucked for 4 years. Anyone who votes for more of this crap is too stupid to vote.

i have read Rick Newman before, he's as idiotic as Paul Krugman. i remember being struck by his ignorance ...
Maybe for you my friend, but it has been great for me and pretty much everyone in business in my surrounding area. I am making more money than ever before in life and most of my clients are doing very well. Business has been strong since 2008.

So you have to understand why I start laughing when I hear Trump telling me how bad everything is (and I know it can be different in other places, but you need to consider that as well). Its simply not the truth in my area or state. But I certainly don't credit Biden for it either.

Presidents have little effect.
 
Maybe for you my friend, but it has been great for me and pretty much everyone in business in my surrounding area. I am making more money than ever before in life and most of my clients are doing very well. Business has been strong since 2008.

So you have to understand why I start laughing when I hear Trump telling me how bad everything is (and I know it can be different in other places, but you need to consider that as well). Its simply not the truth in my area or state. But I certainly don't credit Biden for it either.

Presidents have little effect.
What area are you in and what business?

,My grocery bill is 75% higher and a ribeye is now$60 in a restaurant, used to be 40-45 ...
 
What area are you in and what business?

,My grocery bill is 75% higher and a ribeye is now$60 in a restaurant, used to be 40-45 ...
Well, prices have gone up, that is certainly true. But then we fall back into the argument of why that happened. The new CPI comes out tomorrow and the predictions I have seen are saying its down a bit more, maybe 2.5%. Which is back close to where it was under Trump. Putting politics aside, history is going to paint this post covid economy as a big success by the federal reserve. They managed to keep us out of the recession that everyone was predicting and brought inflation down from over 9% to under 3% without causing that recession. That "soft landing" that is so hard to achieve appears to be happening.

I live in Middle Tennessee and the business environment is strong. This state, as you may know, is mostly run by republicans, so they would get much more credit from me than Biden would for the current state of affairs here. The business environment here has been one of the strongest in the country for a long time. People are leaving California and coming here. We have no state income taxes and low state government regulation. But its growing too fast.

I am in the accounting/tax/consulting business.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FresnoGator
Well, prices have gone up, that is certainly true. But then we fall back into the argument of why that happened. The new CPI comes out tomorrow and the predictions I have seen are saying its down a bit more, maybe 2.5%. Which is back close to where it was under Trump. Putting politics aside, history is going to paint this post covid economy as a big success by the federal reserve. They managed to keep us out of the recession that everyone was predicting and brought inflation down from over 9% to under 3% without causing that recession. That "soft landing" that is so hard to achieve appears to be happening.

I live in Middle Tennessee and the business environment is strong. This state, as you may know, is mostly run by republicans, so they would get much more credit from me than Biden would for the current state of affairs here. The business environment here has been one of the strongest in the country for a long time. People are leaving California and coming here. We have no state income taxes and low state government regulation. But its growing too fast.

I am in the accounting/tax/consulting business.
I am very familiar. I have a couple of short term rental cabins in the smoky mountains in Sevierville, Tennessee …
 
Maybe for you my friend, but it has been great for me and pretty much everyone in business in my surrounding area. I am making more money than ever before in life and most of my clients are doing very well. Business has been strong since 2008.

So you have to understand why I start laughing when I hear Trump telling me how bad everything is (and I know it can be different in other places, but you need to consider that as well). Its simply not the truth in my area or state. But I certainly don't credit Biden for it either.

Presidents have little effect.
This is just a lie. Economy in ANYONES eyes has been horrible. You do not have the highest inflation in many decades, interest rates that tripled, fuel costs that doubled and still be better off. That is just lying. So stop eith this BS and go back and try again.
 
Well, prices have gone up, that is certainly true. But then we fall back into the argument of why that happened. The new CPI comes out tomorrow and the predictions I have seen are saying its down a bit more, maybe 2.5%. Which is back close to where it was under Trump. Putting politics aside, history is going to paint this post covid economy as a big success by the federal reserve. They managed to keep us out of the recession that everyone was predicting and brought inflation down from over 9% to under 3% without causing that recession. That "soft landing" that is so hard to achieve appears to be happening.

I live in Middle Tennessee and the business environment is strong. This state, as you may know, is mostly run by republicans, so they would get much more credit from me than Biden would for the current state of affairs here. The business environment here has been one of the strongest in the country for a long time. People are leaving California and coming here. We have no state income taxes and low state government regulation. But its growing too fast.

I am in the accounting/tax/consulting business.
OK, I can buy that it is better there than many places....just like it is here in NW Florida. BUT...it is NOT what I would call "good". The reasons I mention above has BIG TIME slowed down the housing market, because it has removed the young buyers from being able to afford new housing, much less groceries. America does not need to be brainwashed that THIS is good, because just because lefties are evacuating chithole cities and states ran by lawless, high taxing, ILLEGAL ALIEN loving libs. ALL of us need to be doing well to call this economy "good:". NEVER SETTLE for this garbage we have today
 

The old Trump economy isn’t coming back​


Rick Newman
·Senior Columnist
Tue, Sep 10, 2024, 4:58 PM EDT6 min read

Many Americans have fond memories of the Trump economy that ran from 2017 to 2021. Inflation, interest rates, and gasoline prices were low; the stock market did well; and pre-COVID job and economic growth were solid.
The old Trump economy is a factor in the 2024 election, given that voters trust Donald Trump, the Republican presidential candidate, more on the economy than they trust his Democratic rival, Vice President Kamala Harris. And as usual, the economy is a top voter concern.

But if Trump wins a second term, anybody expecting a quick return to the Goldilocks economy of his first term is likely to be very disappointed. In a preview of Trump 2.0, Goldman Sachs estimated that the economy would shrink by half a percentage point during Trump’s first year if he imposed all of his policies, including new tariffs on imports and a business tax cut that pushed annual deficits higher. Harris’s plan, by contrast, would modestly boost GDP growth, according to Goldman.

During his first term, Trump benefited from benign economic trends dating all the way back to the Great Recession of 2008 and the slow but steady recovery that followed. The post-COVID economy is a different animal with stronger inflationary pressures, more protectionism, costlier energy, and more global turmoil likely to produce shocks. Those forces will dominate the economy during the next four years no matter who is the US president.

Many voters blame or credit the president for whatever happens on their watch. But market forces drive the economy, and presidents normally have only a marginal effect. Looking at four key indicators — inflation, interest rates, gasoline prices, and GDP growth shows that the trends under Trump were largely the same as those under his predecessor, Barack Obama. The COVID disruptions that began in 2020 changed the trajectory for all four of those metrics, as the following chart shows.

Inflation

A surge in prices since 2021 has been Biden’s biggest economic vulnerability. But Trump didn’t do anything special to keep inflation low. Except for occasional spikes in energy prices, there was no meaningful inflation from 1990 to 2021. The Federal Reserve was more concerned about deflation, given that overall price levels briefly went negative under Obama in 2015, as the chart above shows.

One huge factor keeping inflation contained for most of the last 30 years was globalization and a surge in cheap imports from China, in particular. Trump’s trade wars during his first term, when he slapped tariffs on imports, began to close the door on cheap imports. Biden kept those tariffs in place, and both Democrats and Republicans now back a tougher line on China and a renewed emphasis on boosting domestic manufacturing.

That could be good for the US economy overall, but stuff made in the USA is almost always more expensive due to higher pay and more stringent safety and environmental rules. There’s less of a built-in hedge against inflation now than there was during the peak days of globalization, which might have been around 2010 or 2015. That's not likely to change, and those cost pressures will put a higher floor under prices for many things.

Interest rates

During the Great Recession in 2008, the Federal Reserve slashed short-term rates to 0, the first time it had ever gone that low. That was shock therapy meant to jolt the economy back to life amid a financial panic and near depression. The Fed raised rates a bit from 2015 through 2019, but the lack of inflation allowed it to go slow — then slash rates to 0 again when COVID arrived in 2020.
Consumers got used to super-low interest rates, but the whole period from 2009 through 2021 was abnormal. From 1990 through 2008, the Fed's short-term rate averaged 4.25%. From 2009 to 2021, the average was 0.52%.
Consumer rates followed the same pattern. From 1990 through 2008, the average 30-year fixed mortgage rate was 7.3%. From 2009 through 2021, it was 4%. Even now, mortgage rates around 6.4% are below the historical norm. With the Fed poised to cut rates soon, consumer rates could drift down a bit. But stronger inflationary pressure than in the past will probably prevent the Fed from cutting to anywhere near the levels during the decade after the Great Recession.

Gasoline prices

During Trump’s term, gas prices averaged $2.57, compared with $3.60 so far under Biden. Even adjusted for inflation, gas prices were cheaper under Trump. But Trump didn’t do anything to lower pump prices, even though he’s a fossil fuel lover whose mantra is “drill, baby, drill.” Trump simply came into office as the fracking boom was near peak production and energy providers all around the world were overproducing.
In terms of profitability, energy was the worst-performing sector during the Trump presidency because drillers were foregoing profits to gain market share. OPEC joined that game, adding to overproduction, which pushed prices to unusually low levels. When COVID hit in 2020, energy profits collapsed along with retail prices, and the whole industry went through a shakeout.
The result is that energy firms and their investors now prioritize profitability and “capital discipline” over market share — no matter who’s the president. “Our energy team believes that it is unlikely that a Trump administration would translate into more actual drilling relative to a Harris administration,” investing firm Raymond James concluded in a Sept. 10 analysis of possible election outcomes. “A push to decrease the price of US energy could potentially disincentivize production from domestic oil and gas names.” Energy firms, in short, got burned during Trump's presidency, and they're not going to do that again.

Overall economic growth

Trump wants people to believe he presided over the “best economy in the history of our country,” but it was really about the same as during Obama’s second term. Under Obama, from 2013 through 2016, real GDP growth averaged 2.5% per quarter. Under Trump, during the three years before COVID hit, it averaged 2.8%. Including COVID, GDP growth under Trump averaged 2.4%.
Growth under Biden has been stronger, averaging 3% per quarter. But higher inflation and interest rates have more than offset that in voters’ minds. Inflation peaked at 9% in 2022, and while it’s almost back to normal, Americans still feel stung by three years of a hot economy in which cheap imports and plentiful energy no longer cushioned shocks the way they used to. This year’s presidential election isn’t likely to change that.
this wasnt the trump economy it was the economy from the early 1980"s that got shot in the head on march of 2020. JUST THE TIP. we will be in an inflationary environment that will bleed further and further left in the name of fairness. Smarten up my little sheep.
 



no matter who wins this little goldilocks period isnt going to last. they will print like its 2020 as soon as the economy begins to falter. JUST THE TIP>
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT