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Shorter / PSU - Transfer Waiver Info & Thoughts

Jeff from Jax

Gator Great
Dec 2, 2004
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Gators looking, so far, at three transfer situations - As we all know, NCAA is inconsistent & capricious in applying transfer rules. After all the screaming over Justin Fields & Tate Martell getting waivers, they clarified some of the transfer waiver sections.
https://www.al.com/sports/2019/06/n...ing-immediate-eligibility-more-difficult.html

Jordan Pouncey - class of 2017 at Univ Texas. Unless he is a grad student transfer, IMO, he will sit out.

Lorenzo Lingard - Waiver supposedly based on his father's health problems. According to Daytona News-Journal, "...Lorenzo Lingard Sr., has struggled with health issues to his heart and kidneys."
https://www.news-journalonline.com/...ingard-announces-plans-to-transfer-to-florida

NCAA Waiver Rule Change -
"3. When a student-athlete seeks to transfer in order to be closer to an ill family member, the new school must provide “contemporaneous medical documentation from the treating physician showing how the family member is debilitated” as well as how the student-athlete will help provide care for the family member. The new school must also be within 100 miles of the ill family member."
Orange City is 99.5 miles from Gainesville - depending on where you measure from.
https://www.google.com/search?q=mileage+orabge+city,fl+to+gainesville,+fl&rlz=1CARAWP_enUS809&oq=mileage+orabge+city,fl+to+gainesville,+fl&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.17415j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Has his father's condition worsened ?
"Chronology of events: Waivers are more likely to be granted if something changed that prompted the student-athlete’s transfer like a diagnosis, the actual injury, or a worsening condition. Waivers are less likely to be granted if a family member has been ill or injured for a while, and nothing changed that require the student-athlete to transfer."

IMO, biggest problem is how does Lingard help provide day to day care for his father ?
https://www.athleticscholarships.net/ncaa-transfer-exceptions.htm

Justin Shorter - who knows; IMO, outlook not good; not because Penn State didn't screw up, but because of the time element. I doubt all the facts at Penn State have come out; plus how was Shorter personally affected ?

NBC news claims a federal lawsuit already filed -
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...hreatened-sandusky-teammates-hazings-n1115511

Will Penn State contest the issue ? With Federal lawsuit(s) already filed, seems like they will have to. Penn State admitting guilt could cost them millions in court plus possible NCAA "Lack of Institutional Control".


Problem is, how long to settle an explosive issue like this ? These suits could be stalled for years. Seems likely that the waiver "sit out" year will pass before Penn State admits guilt.

2. When a student-athlete transfers because he or she believes he or she “is the victim of egregious behavior directly impacting his or her health, safety or well-being,” the new school must provide documentation on how this is being addressed at the new school. In addition, the previous school must provide a statement from the athletic (dept) to that effect.

Good luck getting that statement before suits are settled !
 
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It seems UF mostly gets screwed when it comes to these situations. Some say they don't push as hard as some other schools. On a related note why in the heck did that one kid never get a student visa even after UF got personally involved? They had no problem letting him play high school football in the US.
 
Gators looking, so far, at three transfer situations - As we all know, NCAA is inconsistent & capricious in applying transfer rules. After all the screaming over Justin Fields & Tate Martell getting waivers, they clarified some of the transfer waiver sections.
https://www.al.com/sports/2019/06/n...ing-immediate-eligibility-more-difficult.html

Jordan Pouncey - class of 2017 at Univ Texas. Unless he is a grad student transfer, IMO, he will sit out.

Lorenzo Lingard - Waiver supposedly based on his father's health problems. According to Daytona News-Journal, "...Lorenzo Lingard Sr., has struggled with health issues to his heart and kidneys."
https://www.news-journalonline.com/...ingard-announces-plans-to-transfer-to-florida

NCAA Waiver Rule Change -
"3. When a student-athlete seeks to transfer in order to be closer to an ill family member, the new school must provide “contemporaneous medical documentation from the treating physician showing how the family member is debilitated” as well as how the student-athlete will help provide care for the family member. The new school must also be within 100 miles of the ill family member."
Orange City is 99.5 miles from Gainesville - depending on where you measure from.
https://www.google.com/search?q=mileage+orabge+city,fl+to+gainesville,+fl&rlz=1CARAWP_enUS809&oq=mileage+orabge+city,fl+to+gainesville,+fl&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.17415j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Has his father's condition worsened ?
"Chronology of events: Waivers are more likely to be granted if something changed that prompted the student-athlete’s transfer like a diagnosis, the actual injury, or a worsening condition. Waivers are less likely to be granted if a family member has been ill or injured for a while, and nothing changed that require the student-athlete to transfer."

IMO, biggest problem is how does Lingard help provide day to day care for his father ?
https://www.athleticscholarships.net/ncaa-transfer-exceptions.htm

Justin Shorter - who knows; IMO, outlook not good; not because Penn State didn't screw up, but because of the time element. I doubt all the facts at Penn State have come out; plus how was Shorter personally affected ?

NBC news claims a federal lawsuit already filed -
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...hreatened-sandusky-teammates-hazings-n1115511

Will Penn State contest the issue ? With Federal lawsuit(s) already filed, seems like they will have to. Penn State admitting guilt could cost them millions in court plus possible NCAA "Lack of Institutional Control".


Problem is, how long to settle an explosive issue like this ? These suits could be stalled for years. Seems likely that the waiver "sit out" year will pass before Penn State admits guilt.

2. When a student-athlete transfers because he or she believes he or she “is the victim of egregious behavior directly impacting his or her health, safety or well-being,” the new school must provide documentation on how this is being addressed at the new school. In addition, the previous school must provide a statement from the athletic (dept) to that effect.

Good luck getting that statement before suits are settled !

I feel like the PSU situation is going to be explosive, and the NCAA will not want to look like ogres. I fully expect everyone transferring from PSU this year to be granted an exception to the waiver rule.

I don't understand your contention that there is a time issue. Yes, he went into the portal before the story broke, but not before the events happened. All he has to say is he knew of it and it made him want to leave.
 
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I look at these more from a need in 2020 standpoint:

WR - first and biggest need - Shorter this year would be big time
Lingard would be awesome but if our Oline improves about anyonw will be good. RB isn't the biggest issue in Mullen's offense.
Pouncy - not sure he's good enough to play but we got his brother by taking him so that's enough
 
I feel like the PSU situation is going to be explosive, and the NCAA will not want to look like ogres. I fully expect everyone transferring from PSU this year to be granted an exception to the waiver rule.

I don't understand your contention that there is a time issue. Yes, he went into the portal before the story broke, but not before the events happened. All he has to say is he knew of it and it made him want to leave.

LG89,

Time issue isn't about Shorter & what he knew & when he knew it.

I looked at the PSU situation when you first posted it as a reply to Shorter's waiver situation, I totally agree it is horrible & once fully documented will be grounds for a waiver.

IMO, the time issue is how hard PSU will fight to stall & avoid disclosure on this issue because of the Federal law suits.

A common tactic is to stall until all suits are brought to life & they have settled them with a non-disclosure agreement & everything else they can do to keep them quiet.

I don't think this will happen quickly, a year or longer would not surprise me.

Even if PSU is guilty it must be proved; this is why Shorter may end up sitting out a year.

Time Line for Sandusky - over 7 months after his arrest
2011 - Novemebr 5- Sandusky is arrested on 40 criminal counts and released on $100,000 bail.

2012 - June 22- Sandusky is found guilty on 45 of the 48 criminal counts he was charged with.

Legal process takes time; no one has even been arrested as yet. Until someone is found guilty, how can NCAA issue a waiver ?
 
The legal process is irrelevant here.

If Chris Steele can qualify for a waiver based on a roomate’s alleged conduct with a female in the same apartment...

An alleged penis slap to your face in the locker room is absolutely getting you cleared...

Shorter plays for Florida next season...bet the farm on it.
 
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The legal process is irrelevant here.

If Chris Steele can qualify for a waiver based on a roomate’s alleged conduct with a female in the same apartment...

An alleged penis slap to your face in the locker room is absolutely getting you cleared...

Shorter plays for Florida next season...bet the farm on it.

Yep it seems you just need to make a crazy claim whether it's totally true or not. UF needs to push harder on these so more get approved.
 
The legal process is irrelevant here.-
NOT TRUE !

If Chris Steele can qualify for a waiver based on a roomate’s alleged conduct with a female in the same apartment...

An alleged penis slap to your face in the locker room is absolutely getting you cleared...

Shorter plays for Florida next season...bet the farm on it.

Sad,

You are looking at situation through Orange & Blue glasses. Situations NOT the same !

UF situation only involved 1 student - Steele.

Steele's roommate allowed to have female visitors in dorm room.
NO force involved - consensual.
NO Federal or any other lawsuits filed.
Millions of dollars NOT at stake.
UF did NOT contest the situation.

Mullen & his WIFE flew out to California to apologize - generally considered an admission of guilt.

Do you see any differences in the UF vs PSU situations ?

Do you expect PSU to plead guilty in the next week or so & make themselves liable for millions of dollars in damages ?

OR, will PSU stall & contest it ?
 
Mullen & his WIFE flew out to California to apologize - generally considered an admission of guilt.
WTF are you talkin’ about?

Those chicks accused Jones of sexual battery ...no charges filed...

Guilt of what?!?!? Not moving his room..which was absolute BS. The dude wanted to go home. They went to try to convince him to stay...end of story.
 
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LG89,

Time issue isn't about Shorter & what he knew & when he knew it.

I looked at the PSU situation when you first posted it as a reply to Shorter's waiver situation, I totally agree it is horrible & once fully documented will be grounds for a waiver.

IMO, the time issue is how hard PSU will fight to stall & avoid disclosure on this issue because of the Federal law suits.

A common tactic is to stall until all suits are brought to life & they have settled them with a non-disclosure agreement & everything else they can do to keep them quiet.

I don't think this will happen quickly, a year or longer would not surprise me.

Even if PSU is guilty it must be proved; this is why Shorter may end up sitting out a year.

Time Line for Sandusky - over 7 months after his arrest
2011 - Novemebr 5- Sandusky is arrested on 40 criminal counts and released on $100,000 bail.

2012 - June 22- Sandusky is found guilty on 45 of the 48 criminal counts he was charged with.

Legal process takes time; no one has even been arrested as yet. Until someone is found guilty, how can NCAA issue a waiver ?
Question... didn’t the NCAA rule on the situation long before that, though? Legal cases do take time, but they don’t need a final verdict in these cases. It’s as much about perception as anything, and they don’t want to look like they’re forcing a kid to stay in a bad situation, or to punish a kid who is completely innocent and wants to go somewhere else bc if a situation. Even if they settle all the suits, if the perception exists that something happened at a program, a kid who had nothing to do with it shouldn’t have to bear that burden. I’m pretty sure shorter will get a waiver. They’ve given them for much less
 
ih8f$u & Sad,

Everyone entitled to an opinion; no guarantee mine is correct; time will tell.

As Sad pointed out in UF situation, no charges filed; Girls said it was consensual; how else could they have ended up in a male's dorm room on 2nd floor ?

"...A former Penn State football player Isaiah Humphries has filed a federal lawsuit that accuses Penn State and head coach James Franklin ignoring hazing taking place within the program."

Hazing, by definition, is not consensual.

"...Hazing is any act committed against someone joining or becoming a member or maintaining membership in any organization that is humiliating, intimidating or demeaning, or endangers the health and safety of the person."

Step 1 Deny
Step 2 Stall
Step 3 Contest it if it goes to court

"...Penn State has responded to the news of the lawsuit with a statement (shared below) claiming police investigated the allegations and the district attorney’s office decided no charges were warranted"

Two sides to every story; none of us were there. I don't see a quick settlement / verdict here.

"...And, for what it is worth, a number of Penn State players, both past and present, have responded to the news via Twitter.

This kid absolutely sucks. I was there when he was and nothing but trouble came from this kid. From the jump he made a name for himself for being a trouble maker.

I can assure you that everything that comes out of his mouth is a lie. THIS DUDE STINKS https://t.co/MDMI0vLEvl"

— Ryan Bates (@52batesryan) January 14, 2020

Has Shorter alleged that he was hazed ?
Has he filed charges ?
What happens if Isaiah Humphries lied ?

As yet, No charges filed; district attorney’s office decided no charges were warranted"

If nothing happened, Where is your basis for a transfer waiver ?

https://collegefootballtalk.nbcspor...es-franklin-of-ignoring-hazing-at-penn-state/
 
ih8f$u & Sad,

Everyone entitled to an opinion; no guarantee mine is correct; time will tell.

As Sad pointed out in UF situation, no charges filed; Girls said it was consensual; how else could they have ended up in a male's dorm room on 2nd floor ?

"...A former Penn State football player Isaiah Humphries has filed a federal lawsuit that accuses Penn State and head coach James Franklin ignoring hazing taking place within the program."

Hazing, by definition, is not consensual.

"...Hazing is any act committed against someone joining or becoming a member or maintaining membership in any organization that is humiliating, intimidating or demeaning, or endangers the health and safety of the person."

Step 1 Deny
Step 2 Stall
Step 3 Contest it if it goes to court

"...Penn State has responded to the news of the lawsuit with a statement (shared below) claiming police investigated the allegations and the district attorney’s office decided no charges were warranted"

Two sides to every story; none of us were there. I don't see a quick settlement / verdict here.

"...And, for what it is worth, a number of Penn State players, both past and present, have responded to the news via Twitter.

This kid absolutely sucks. I was there when he was and nothing but trouble came from this kid. From the jump he made a name for himself for being a trouble maker.

I can assure you that everything that comes out of his mouth is a lie. THIS DUDE STINKS https://t.co/MDMI0vLEvl"

— Ryan Bates (@52batesryan) January 14, 2020

Has Shorter alleged that he was hazed ?
Has he filed charges ?
What happens if Isaiah Humphries lied ?

As yet, No charges filed; district attorney’s office decided no charges were warranted"

If nothing happened, Where is your basis for a transfer waiver ?

https://collegefootballtalk.nbcspor...es-franklin-of-ignoring-hazing-at-penn-state/
WTF even is this?!?!?
 
Sad,

Your comments, based on emotion rather than facts -
An alleged penis slap to your face in the locker room is absolutely getting you cleared...(transfer waiver ?)

Shorter plays for Florida next season...bet the farm on it.

Evidently, the Happy Valley District Attorney has determined that Isaiah Humphries lied & "the alleged penis slap never happened."
Hence, his refusal to file charges.

Without that, what is the basis for Shorter's Transfer Waiver ?

Without that, isn't Shorter just one more disgruntled player, put on the bench by a walk-on, with no one to blame but himself for not working hard enough to get it done ?
 
Sad,

Your comments, based on emotion rather than facts -

Evidently, the Happy Valley District Attorney has determined that Isaiah Humphries lied & "the alleged penis slap never happened."
Hence, his refusal to file charges.

Without that, what is the basis for Shorter's Transfer Waiver ?

Without that, isn't Shorter just one more disgruntled player, put on the bench by a walk-on, with no one to blame but himself for not working hard enough to get it done ?

Shorter got benched after the Minnesota game for his lack of effort and inability to catch a ball. The staff gave him more than enough opportunity to be a five star talent. And that was the issue. He couldn’t forget he was a five star HS player and he expected things handed to him. He was benched for a walk on and with a game to go in the regular season quit on the team and entered the portal. Hopefully he pulls his head out of his ass and goes on to have a nice career at UF, but he has a lot of maturing to do.
 
Shorter got benched after the Minnesota game for his lack of effort and inability to catch a ball. The staff gave him more than enough opportunity to be a five star talent. And that was the issue. He couldn’t forget he was a five star HS player and he expected things handed to him. He was benched for a walk on and with a game to go in the regular season quit on the team and entered the portal. Hopefully he pulls his head out of his ass and goes on to have a nice career at UF, but he has a lot of maturing to do.
It’s always strange when a poster who has been a member since 2004 makes his first post 16 years later, and it is a flaming shit bag drive by...
 
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