Pandemic of the Unvaccinated?

[fatman76]

No one can argue the bad outcomes are more often unvaxxed patients...but where are the mutations coming from?

I'll step aside and let those more qualified debate the topic.

 

[Mdfgator]

I was just speaking to my college roommate, that's a doc, about this. It makes more intuitive sense to me that the variants would mutate to a greater degree in the vaccinated. I am guessing obviously. I still think if you're at risk get the shot, if you're not at risk I don't see any benefit to doing it.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

No one can argue the bad outcomes are more often unvaxxed patients...but where are the mutations coming from?

I'll step aside and let those more qualified debate the topic.

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So his theory is that the vaccines are actually driving mutations and variants.

If true, we have a VERY scary question to ask: Were they DESIGNED to do that????

 

[fatman76]

So his theory is that the vaccines are actually driving mutations and variants.

If true, we have a VERY scary question to ask: Were they DESIGNED to do that????

I think that's a bridge too far for me

Dig through some of the physician's comments about the knowledge early on if you made the vaccine too "simple" (probably an ignorant descriptor) and it was too easy for the virus to mutate to stay alive I think it's more about desperation than evil.

As I just posted in another thread I don't want to believe we have that kind of evil in leadership. And that evil points right back to Operation Warp Speed.

I think it was a hail mary "best option we can come up with quickly" situation. It does create a death spiral of vaccination though - as more mutations occur you have to get boosters and different shots to stay "protected", which causes more mutations. Luckily I don't think viruses always mutate stronger...I think if they did the Flu would have wiped out mankind.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

I think that's a bridge too far for me

Dig through some of the physician's comments about the knowledge early on if you made the vaccine too "simple" (probably an ignorant descriptor) and it was too easy for the virus to mutate to stay alive I think it's more about desperation than evil.

As I just posted in another thread I don't want to believe we have that kind of evil in leadership. And that evil points right back to Operation Warp Speed.

I think it was a hail mary "best option we can come up with quickly" situation. It does create a death spiral of vaccination though - as more mutations occur you have to get boosters and different shots to stay "protected", which causes more mutations. Luckily I don't think viruses always mutate stronger...I think if they did the Flu would have wiped out mankind.

To be fair, these vaccines were insanely rushed. So it makes sense that anything like this would be due to error before design.

But I'm just not ready to say you can eliminate the idea of design. I'll go with error first, but...

 

[dingyibvs]

Any time there's spread there's a chance of mutations, since it occurs during the reproduction of organisms. Since the Delta variant and the emerging Lambda variant can evade current vaccines pretty well, the vaccinated will for sure contribute to the emergence of more variants.

Eventually, though, pathogens will evolve to a point where they're infectious but not deadly. After all, the driving force behind mutations (or more precisely, the survival and multiplication of mutant variants) is survival, and killing the host isn't really conducive to that.

What this means is that we only really need protection from vaccines up to that point. After COVID becomes like any other coronavirus, which is infectious but not deadly, then we won't really need vaccines anymore.

 

[jfegaly]

This would make our very own doc mcstuffins wrong yet again.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

This would make our very own doc mcstuffins wrong yet again.

I think he's gonna end up being wrong about a LOT in the coming months and years. Unfortunately he's not alone and we all will pay the price, one way or another.

 

[BSC911]

Nut job antiVaxxers

 

[Uniformed_ReRe]

Nut job antibacterial

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I honestly don’t know how nurses put up with the stuff they have to deal with.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

I honestly don’t know how nurses put up with the stuff they have to deal with.

Children shouldn't be wearing masks in school. The science is painfully clear on this.

Nurses are the first people that should know better. But many in the medical community are putting politics and virtue signalling ahead of public health and safety.

Besides, they will probably do a TikTok video about this.

 

[BamaFan1137]

I was just speaking to my college roommate, that's a doc, about this. It makes more intuitive sense to me that the variants would mutate to a greater degree in the vaccinated. I am guessing obviously. I still think if you're at risk get the shot, if you're not at risk I don't see any benefit to doing it.

Agree. I will say that the benefit of a lesser illness for the vaccinated is nothing to sneeze at.

Even if you're VERY likely to survive either way, having a lesser "covid event" seems desirable. Of course there's also the event a day or so after the jab but at least that is scheduled.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

Agree. I will say that the benefit of a lesser illness for the vaccinated is nothing to sneeze at.

Even if you're VERY likely to survive either way, having a lesser "covid event" seems desirable. Of course there's also the event a day or so after the jab but at least that is scheduled.

Unfortuately, the long term effects are completely unknown. Remove that wildcard and I think a lot of the unvaccinated would be fine with taking them.

 

[BamaFan1137]

I think that's a bridge too far for me

Dig through some of the physician's comments about the knowledge early on if you made the vaccine too "simple" (probably an ignorant descriptor) and it was too easy for the virus to mutate to stay alive I think it's more about desperation than evil.

As I just posted in another thread I don't want to believe we have that kind of evil in leadership. And that evil points right back to Operation Warp Speed.

I think it was a hail mary "best option we can come up with quickly" situation. It does create a death spiral of vaccination though - as more mutations occur you have to get boosters and different shots to stay "protected", which causes more mutations. Luckily I don't think viruses always mutate stronger...I think if they did the Flu would have wiped out mankind.

I believe that many virologist's believe that eventually C19 will mutate to where it's FAR less dangerous. If I'm not mistaken, they're saying that is more likely than a continuation of mutations that make it FAR more dangerous.

 

[NavigatorII]

I believe that many virologist's believe that eventually C19 will mutate to where it's FAR less dangerous. If I'm not mistaken, they're saying that is more likely than a continuation of mutations that make it FAR more dangerous.

I think that's where the confusion lies. Not sure which conclusion is true.

 

[BamaFan1137]

Unfortuately, the long term effects are completely unknown. Remove that wildcard and I think a lot of the unvaccinated would be fine with taking them.

Absolutely agree. Without that unknown, I would be vaccinated today...despite having natural antibodies.

BTW, I will be tested again Friday for antibodies. I love my boss.

 

[NavigatorII]

Absolutely agree. Without that unknown, I would be vaccinated today...despite having natural antibodies.

BTW, I will be tested again Friday for antibodies. I love my boss.

When in doubt, book that appointment Dano!

 

[fsumc]

How many different COVID vaccines are on the market around the world? India has stuff we don’t, China, Russia, etc. Is it possible all these different types of vaccines running around the globe are exasperating the variants? We’re only talking about Delta right now but we know there are way more out there.

 

[goldmom]

How many different COVID vaccines are on the market around the world? India has stuff we don’t, China, Russia, etc. Is it possible all these different types of vaccines running around the globe are exasperating the variants? We’re only talking about Delta right now but we know there are way more out there.

Interesting question.

 

[fsumc]

Interesting question.

I literally tried googling to see if there was a ballpark number. Inundated with all kinds of other COVID number or just the different types of vaccines. I’m sure some folks are looking at this and studying it. Fifty years from now this is going to be one hell of a period to study historically.

 

[BamaFan1137]

I literally tried googling to see if there was a ballpark number. Inundated with all kinds of other COVID number or just the different types of vaccines. I’m sure some folks are looking at this and studying it. Fifty years from now this is going to be one hell of a period to study historically.

Equatorial Guinea just launched a new wildebeest dung based vaccine...apparently super promising.

 

[fsumc]

Equatorial Guinea just launched a new wildebeest dung based vaccine...apparently super promising.

We’re at the point I don’t know if this is a joke anymore…

 

[BamaFan1137]

We’re at the point I don’t know if this is a joke anymore…

Touché 😂

 

[jfegaly]

Equatorial Guinea just launched a new wildebeest dung based vaccine...apparently super promising.

Shit for veins

 

[fatman76]

I believe that many virologist's believe that eventually C19 will mutate to where it's FAR less dangerous. If I'm not mistaken, they're saying that is more likely than a continuation of mutations that make it FAR more dangerous.

My tin foil hat concern is that Delta wasn't a natural mutation.

If they can make the Alpha in the lab why couldn’t they make mutations?

As we speak a port in China is shut down due to one Covid case.

 

[fatman76]

How many different COVID vaccines are on the market around the world? India has stuff we don’t, China, Russia, etc. Is it possible all these different types of vaccines running around the globe are exasperating the variants? We’re only talking about Delta right now but we know there are way more out there.

Paper that one of the docs here posted from the UK listed over 20 variants but Alpha and Delta were still a vast majority of sequenced cases.

Some doctors and scientists have feared the vaccines are too simple and are actually encouraging mutations. I’m not educated enough to evaluate that claim.

 

[BillCutting4585]

My tin foil hat concern is that Delta wasn't a natural mutation.

If they can make the Alpha in the lab why couldn’t they make mutations?

As we speak a port in China is shut down due to one Covid case.