OT: Bye Bye Competition

[PlutoDroid]

During this dead period in sports (not a huge MLB fan) I now more than ever love college athletics. I have looked at both sides of paying amateur athletes and have fallen on the no side. Too many can of worms, stipends are an alternative. Not the point of this thread though.

The NBA free agency is the most overblown thing today. LeBron James broke the league, now he has left three teams in terrible financial and draft capital status as it comes to team salary and flexibility. They got their rings though, what I mean by broke is what Golden State has done.

No longer are there Michael Jordan , Larry Bird or Magic Johnson types. Guys now join fellow superstars to make up a very anticlimactic product.

Do we even have to watch next year? Golden State just signed Demarcus Cousins to form a all-star team. No point in watching the upcoming season.

College football can't get here soon enough.

 

[PacoGator19]

I haven’t watched the NBA for years. The NBA had already gotten to that point. It’s become just a waste of time to even have a season at this point.

 

[oozie7]

LeBron didn’t break the league. Look back at all those past championship teams and they all had multiple hall-of-famers on them. It’s a myth that those superstars were just willing their teams to victory. The 80’s Celtics had 4 hall-of-fame players, the Showtime Lakers had 3 with a hall-of-fame coach, the Bulls had 3 with a hall-of-fame coach to boot too. You didn’t see the same player movement because free agency wasn’t a huge thing back then, but all that meant is teams were able to draft and keep more good players which gave them more stacked teams.

 

[bradleygator]

Nobody knows how healthy Cousins will be. Also, as good as he is, he’s a ball-dominant center who shoots 20 times a game and turns it over 5. His style is completely opposite to what Golden State does. The Pelicans played much better after he got hurt. He might make them a super team, but how much better can they really get?

Free agency isn’t over yet. Leonard could go to Houston, OKC, Boston, Philly or the Lakers and make things interesting.

 

[bradleygator]

It's also funny to me that people complain about how players getting together to form "superteams" (which for some reason is more offensive than a front office trying to form a "superteam") is bad for the league. Ratings are up across the board, and the NBA offseason has completely owned the media. Even summer league ratings are up.

I think it's kind of cool, players joining together to try to knock off the team at the top. It's almost like comic book, super hero type stuff. I did think Durant flipping to GS, after having them down 3-1 in the playoffs and failing to close the deal, was pretty weak. But I doubt he's too worried about what we think after back-to-back finals MVPs.

 

[bradleygator]

LeBron didn’t break the league. Look back at all those past championship teams and they all had multiple hall-of-famers on them. It’s a myth that those superstars were just willing their teams to victory. The 80’s Celtics had 4 hall-of-fame players, the Showtime Lakers had 3 with a hall-of-fame coach, the Bulls had 3 with a hall-of-fame coach to boot too. You didn’t see the same player movement because free agency wasn’t a huge thing back then, but all that meant is teams were able to draft and keep more good players which gave them more stacked teams.

Right. Why are teams like the Lakers (Magic, Kareem, Worthy, Byron Scott), Celtics (Bird, McHale, Parrish, DJ), Bulls (Jordan, Pippen, Rodman), Spurs (David Robinson, Duncan, Ginobli, Parker, Leonard) looked at with reverence, but the Warriors and Lebron's Heat teams are viewed as the system breaking down? Because the former were put together by owners and front offices while the latter were put together (to some extent) by the players?

People like the idea of players operating strictly within the constraints of management. Interesting psychology.

 

[oozie7]

Right. Why are teams like the Lakers (Magic, Kareem, Worthy, Byron Scott), Celtics (Bird, McHale, Parrish, DJ), Bulls (Jordan, Pippen, Rodman), Spurs (David Robinson, Duncan, Ginobli, Parker, Leonard) looked at with reverence, but the Warriors and Lebron's Heat teams are viewed as the system breaking down? Because the former were put together by owners and front offices while the latter were put together (to some extent) by the players?

People like the idea of players operating strictly within the constraints of management. Interesting psychology.

Exactly.

Hell Boston put together a Big 3 plus Rondo two seasons before LeBron left to go to the Heat but that gets overlooked somehow. LeBron is the only star expected to stay somewhere with a bad roster and carry them apparently.

 

[GatorGray]

Exactly.

Hell Boston put together a Big 3 plus Rondo two seasons before LeBron left to go to the Heat but that gets overlooked somehow. LeBron is the only star expected to stay somewhere with a bad roster and carry them apparently.

Who expected Lebron to stay? Since last season began, it has been accepted - and understood as to why - that he would leave.

 

[bradleygator]

Who expected Lebron to stay? Since last season began, it has been accepted - and understood as to why - that he would leave.

But this whole narrative, of the players "ruining" the NBA, started with his leaving a really bad Cleveland team for Miami and bringing along Bosh to join Wade.

 

[bradleygator]

Which, actually, the Heat teams were a lot of fun to watch, and played in some excellent Finals.

The Durant thing was ridiculous. But at the same time, it's still on teams to put together an organization that players want to play for.

 

[sadgator]

The NBA is tough to watch, it is primarily a half court product, and the season is infinitely too long.

 

[bradleygator]

The NBA regular season is ridiculous. It's 82 games long and any half decent team makes the playoffs anyway. Players know it and play about 2/3 speed except for brief stretches. It's basically a fashion show.

Playoffs I think are pretty good, because the good teams do play hard and the top players know that's where they make their name. Even if the finals are a foregone conclusion I think some of the early round matchups are pretty interesting. And this year the conference finals were good. Two game 7s.

 

[gatorbuilderorlando]

Exactly.

Hell Boston put together a Big 3 plus Rondo two seasons before LeBron left to go to the Heat but that gets overlooked somehow. LeBron is the only star expected to stay somewhere with a bad roster and carry them apparently.

I agree - it's interesting to think through not just how it's different but also the implications. Will viewership be down because of super groups being put togehter? Will it be higher/more interesting to watch a team with this much talent?

This is different in that the players in the NBA (especially with only 5 on the floor at once) have a dominate hand in the future of each team they choose to be a part of. It's an interesting change.

 

[oozie7]

Who expected Lebron to stay? Since last season began, it has been accepted - and understood as to why - that he would leave.

Because he’s often cited as the dude who ruined the NBA when he left a bad Cleveland team to go Miami. Ever since then he’s been blamed for the super teams when the leagues whole history is filled with stacked teams winning championships.

And to be honest those Heat teams still weren’t stacked compared to their comp. They beat a Spurs team with 3 hall-of-famers and Kawhi Leonard. Beat an OKC team with three MVP’s (now on it), etc.

 

[HardeeWildcatFan]

The NBA game-play has changed from a team sport to a look at me sport...I cannot stand watching it anymore and its a waste a air time IMHO to even show a game on television.

 

[Gator Fever]

It is making the season meaningless. What is it now just Golden State and the Lakers if they can get another piece to go with Lebron and a couple of competitive teams underneath them. You would have thought a salary cap would have prevented what Golden State has done but I guess there are all kinds of loopholes now to extend stuff.

 

[Gator Fever]

Because he’s often cited as the dude who ruined the NBA when he left a bad Cleveland team to go Miami. Ever since then he’s been blamed for the super teams when the leagues whole history is filled with stacked teams winning championships.

And to be honest those Heat teams still weren’t stacked compared to their comp. They beat a Spurs team with 3 hall-of-famers and Kawhi Leonard. Beat an OKC team with three MVP’s (now on it), etc.

I never remember the very top players in their primes moving around like this in the old days. I think most of the very top guys were drafted by the teams they won championships with. A few were traded by their teams for other players. It happened some I guess but usually when they were at the top starting to head south a little.

 

[PlutoDroid]

For the record I Don't think LeBron did anything wrong by chasing rings. I do think it is different then what has happened in the past because LeBron and Kevin Durant chose to sign with teams while they were in their early to mid 20s. The Boston big three was built by trades and Garnett and Allen were in their 30s at the time.

What LeBron did in the 2010 Summer was unprecedented in that he had billionaires fly to him and present pitches. He totally changed the game, the amount of personell power he has is unreal. There was a source that stated the Cavaliers owner might be glad LeBron leaves because he would get his team back.

Kevin Durant followed the model LeBron created and left a pretty good OKC team for a 70 win team that beat his team in 7 games. Imagine Michael joining the Pistons because he couldn't beat them.

The NFL has a hard salary cap that you can't go over. They have a franchise tag that allows them to retain one player they deem it necessary to keep, the NBA has a luxury tax that these billionaire owners don't mind paying which allows them to go over the salary cap. LeBron basically demands his owners go over it and they comply because of the amount of money he helps generate.

The NBA has no franchise tag, they Don't have the option of keeping their most important pieces. I don't fault the players for this broken system, I just find it increasingly less enjoyable to watch an 82 game regular season where half the games don't matter. Then a near 3 month postseason where I know who will win the title from the outset.

If you enjoy the NBA and like watching Golden State hoist trophies then that's great. It's just not all that interesting to me.

 

[PacoGator19]

It is making the season meaningless. What is it now just Golden State and the Lakers if they can get another piece to go with Lebron and a couple of competitive teams underneath them. You would have thought a salary cap would have prevented what Golden State has done but I guess there are all kinds of loopholes now to extend stuff.

Boston will be very good but who cares!! Golden State will win again. No need to even have a season.

 

[instaGATOR]

I'm mildly happy for the Gator players when they can move on and make some money.
That's the entire extent of my interest in both the NBA and the NFL.
I long ago lost interest in either, and lately it's actually turned into negative interest.

The college game would improve if they both went out of business imo.
And that would be just fine with me....

 

[oozie7]

I never remember the very top players in their primes moving around like this in the old days. I think most of the very top guys were drafted by the teams they won championships with. A few were traded by their teams for other players. It happened some I guess but usually when they were at the top starting to head south a little.

Because free agency is fairly recent, they didn’t have to. Plenty of stars of the past have said had they had the power to move teams they would have. Because free agency wasn’t a thing back then the teams were actually more stacked because if you drafted well you kept the team together until they retired. Go back and look at some of those Celtics teams with 5+ hall-of-famers. All those 80’s championship teams had a minimum of three hall-of-famers on them, dominant one-sided teams aren’t anything new. To me there’s no difference between a team trading for a top player or a team signing a top player via free agency, the end result is the same.

 

[PlutoDroid]

Because free agency is fairly recent, they didn’t have to. Plenty of stars of the past have said had they had the power to move teams they would have. Because free agency wasn’t a thing back then the teams were actually more stacked because if you drafted well you kept the team together until they retired. Go back and look at some of those Celtics teams with 5+ hall-of-famers. All those 80’s championship teams had a minimum of three hall-of-famers on them, dominant one-sided teams aren’t anything new. To me there’s no difference between a team trading for a top player or a team signing a top player via free agency, the end result is the same.

One major difference today is the control players have over the owners. In the past if you didn't want to honor your contract and play for the team you signed with you would sit and not get paid. Today the owner will accomadate your demands like Cleveland did with Irving.

LeBron didn't like it so he left via free agency, the difference is Cleveland got some value back by trading Irving. They got squat for LeBron. For the player there are no reprecussions, he hamstrung Cleveland twice and Miami. No assets, no cap room. They got stuck with bloated contracts for over the hill players because they were James buddies or fit his style of play.

He changed the game, he comes in and shapes your orginization. Once he sees that roster can't beat San Antonio or Golden State he bolts. The team he leaves has no draft capitol because of the moves he demanded they make. Shrewd buisnessman, just wait. The Lakers will go from one of the youngest teams with plenty of draft capital and cap space into an old LeBron shaped mess in four years.

 

[oozie7]

One major difference today is the control players have over the owners. In the past if you didn't want to honor your contract and play for the team you signed with you would sit and not get paid. Today the owner will accomadate your demands like Cleveland did with Irving.

LeBron didn't like it so he left via free agency, the difference is Cleveland got some value back by trading Irving. They got squat for LeBron. For the player there are no reprecussions, he hamstrung Cleveland twice and Miami. No assets, no cap room. They got stuck with bloated contracts for over the hill players because they were James buddies or fit his style of play.

He changed the game, he comes in and shapes your orginization. Once he sees that roster can't beat San Antonio or Golden State he bolts. The team he leaves has no draft capitol because of the moves he demanded they make. Shrewd buisnessman, just wait. The Lakers will go from one of the youngest teams with plenty of draft capital and cap space into an old LeBron shaped mess in four years.

This isn’t anything new though, it’s largely revisionist history and players being under more of a microscope now. Star players have always had a ton of influence over their teams. Magic Johnson got a coach fired because he didn’t like his coaching style. Jordan demanded plenty of his teammates be traded. And in fact his last few years with the Bulls he only signed one year contracts to get as much money as possible and to hold leverage over the owners. There are numerous other examples like that for past players.

 

[bradleygator]

One major difference today is the control players have over the owners. In the past if you didn't want to honor your contract and play for the team you signed with you would sit and not get paid. Today the owner will accomadate your demands like Cleveland did with Irving.

LeBron didn't like it so he left via free agency, the difference is Cleveland got some value back by trading Irving. They got squat for LeBron. For the player there are no reprecussions, he hamstrung Cleveland twice and Miami. No assets, no cap room. They got stuck with bloated contracts for over the hill players because they were James buddies or fit his style of play.

He changed the game, he comes in and shapes your orginization. Once he sees that roster can't beat San Antonio or Golden State he bolts. The team he leaves has no draft capitol because of the moves he demanded they make. Shrewd buisnessman, just wait. The Lakers will go from one of the youngest teams with plenty of draft capital and cap space into an old LeBron shaped mess in four years.

Cleveland got almost nothing back for Irving. It was a terrible trade, and I’d be pissed if I was Lebron and that’s the best my front office can do, trading a very marketable player. Also, why the hell do you trade him to your biggest competition in the East to get to a final? Made no sense at the time and it turned into a total disaster when they traded away crowder and Thomas for peanuts. The roster they put around Lebron was garbage both times. Without him they probably win 25 games last year.

I don’t think he left Miami in too bad shape. The big hit there was Bosh getting hurt. They bounced back even from that pretty quick and are a good young team.

It’s never good to lose a player like him for nothing but he’s the rare player you can’t trade because just him being on your roster gives you a shot at the title no matter how bad the rest of the roster is.

 

[sadgator]

It would kick ass if Joakim Noah would somehow win an NBA title.

Other than Steve, Tebow, and Wuerff, he is the next greatest Gator ever....

 

[-MDVOL]

During this dead period in sports (not a huge MLB fan) I now more than ever love college athletics. I have looked at both sides of paying amateur athletes and have fallen on the no side. Too many can of worms, stipends are an alternative. Not the point of this thread though.

The NBA free agency is the most overblown thing today. LeBron James broke the league, now he has left three teams in terrible financial and draft capital status as it comes to team salary and flexibility. They got their rings though, what I mean by broke is what Golden State has done.

No longer are there Michael Jordan , Larry Bird or Magic Johnson types. Guys now join fellow superstars to make up a very anticlimactic product.

Do we even have to watch next year? Golden State just signed Demarcus Cousins to form a all-star team. No point in watching the upcoming season.

College football can't get here soon enough.

The game they play is not what I watched as a "Yute" to adult in the mid 1960 to around 1990.

II lived in the DC area beginning in 1985. In the late 1980's, Washington put together a team that would have been great 5 years earlier, Bernard King, Moses Malone, .Jeff Malone, Darrell Walker and Mugsy Bouges.



They would start and play the 1st quarter, run up points and then in the 2nd quarter, they played 4 guards and 7'7" Manute Bol. Bol rarely ventured away from the opposing basket. He made guys like Jordan have to arch layups over the height of the backboard as his reach was so devastating. He had more blocked shots( 2089) in his NBA Career than he had points.(1599)
The 4 guards job was to press the hell out of the opposing team, score off turnovers and run their guts out. After halftime, the Bullets starters would come back and go to work scoring and in the 4th quarter, a mix of both teams with Bol firmly planted under the opposing goal causing some of the highest arching shots in NBA history.


They were fun to watch even if they didn't win all that often.

When the NBA went to Gangsta style outside asphalt type basketball, I quit watching. ,

 

[sadgator]

sadgator watched a lot of NBA in the early 90’s. Those Bulls/Pistons, Bulls/Knicks, and Pacers/Knicks series were awesome.