Numbers, my man
- Thread starter Michi-Gator
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Don't like Meyer but he didn't destroy our program. I don't understand how that argument can be made. People always talk about how Zook left Meyer a stacked team but factually Meyer leaves Muschamp MORE NFL talent than Zook left him but he destroyed the program? How does that make sense?
He left offensive talent?
Lol do tell me the great offensive talent Meyer left us.
Remind me that he didn't say the rogram was broken.
What a joke. Revisionist history.
Lol do tell me the great offensive talent Meyer left us.
Remind me that he didn't say the rogram was broken.
What a joke. Revisionist history.
Urban will go down as one of the greatest of all time. He's the best football coach we ever had. He flat out gets it done and wins impressively everywhere he has been.
Look he would have won a 3rd national title at UF if we had kept Cam Newton.
Look he would have won a 3rd national title at UF if we had kept Cam Newton.
Danny, numbers, Bigfoot did more to destroy our program than Meyer. Let it go.
Seriously, its been 4 years. We don't suck because of Meyer. Its not freaking possible
Seriously, its been 4 years. We don't suck because of Meyer. Its not freaking possible
Meyer has done such a great coaching job this year that they would have won the national title with any of his 3 QBs. Reminds me of the coaching job he did with our 2006 national championship team.
Admittedly, I'm just jealous (and sad) that he's not still our coach.
There were times during his tenure at UF that I thought he's the best coach in college football, he's our coach and we'll enjoy this type of success for decades to come. Perhaps I wasn't the only one who thought this.
Then reality sets it - this is the SEC. The meat grinding conference of college football.
Urban made the smart decision for himself and his family. The Big 10 will likely never play at the same level as a conference as the SEC. He will dominate that league for decades to come and compete for national championships every year. It reminds me of FSU in the ACC - play a weak conference schedule all season and gear up for a few big, non-conference games. You win those games, build the confidence of your team and keep most of them healthy while doing it.
What we saw last night was what we could've accomplished with Cam. Urban deserves the credit for great recruiting and coaching. I'm sure he learned something about engaging second and third string QBs after dealing with Cam.
I just wish he'd handled his departure from UF differently. I think I'd feel differently about his successes now.
All that being said, time will tell if we made the right choice in McElwain. But I am impressed with his approach in building a staff with a focus on success in coaching and recruiting. Watching him work proves just how bad and poorly qualified Muschamp was. It's clear he had no clue what he was doing in trying to build a competitive program - getting the right pieces in place on both sides of the ball.
I hope we can all put the Muschamp error behind us and look forward to better days to come - and that everyone here and across the Gator Nation can enjoy a sense of optimism again that things will be different and we'll be competing at a high level once again.
There were times during his tenure at UF that I thought he's the best coach in college football, he's our coach and we'll enjoy this type of success for decades to come. Perhaps I wasn't the only one who thought this.
Then reality sets it - this is the SEC. The meat grinding conference of college football.
Urban made the smart decision for himself and his family. The Big 10 will likely never play at the same level as a conference as the SEC. He will dominate that league for decades to come and compete for national championships every year. It reminds me of FSU in the ACC - play a weak conference schedule all season and gear up for a few big, non-conference games. You win those games, build the confidence of your team and keep most of them healthy while doing it.
What we saw last night was what we could've accomplished with Cam. Urban deserves the credit for great recruiting and coaching. I'm sure he learned something about engaging second and third string QBs after dealing with Cam.
I just wish he'd handled his departure from UF differently. I think I'd feel differently about his successes now.
All that being said, time will tell if we made the right choice in McElwain. But I am impressed with his approach in building a staff with a focus on success in coaching and recruiting. Watching him work proves just how bad and poorly qualified Muschamp was. It's clear he had no clue what he was doing in trying to build a competitive program - getting the right pieces in place on both sides of the ball.
I hope we can all put the Muschamp error behind us and look forward to better days to come - and that everyone here and across the Gator Nation can enjoy a sense of optimism again that things will be different and we'll be competing at a high level once again.
He left more offensive talent than Zook left him, talk about revisionist.
Rainey- 3rd round pick
Gilislee- 5th round pick
Demps- arguably the most explosive player in the country
Reed- one of the best TE's in the country
Xavier Nixon- NFL starter
Harrison- NFL starter
Burton- multi-faceted guy who is logging major minutes for the Eagles
And that's just off the top of my head. Compare that to what Zook left him yet y'all claim Zook left a stacked roster.
Compare that to what Zook left
Leak- 5'10 QB who went undrafted
Wynn- 7th round pick
Manson- transfer guy
Cornelius- undrafted
Jackson- 2nd round
Baker- undrafted
Caldwell- 3rd round
And not a single NFL starter on the o-line. Now please tell me more about this stacked team Zook left that people always talk about. Somehow we managed to have a top 25 offense with that talent, but you're telling me Muschamp didn't have enough talent to not have an offense in the 100's?
Leak- 5'10 QB who went undrafted
Wynn- 7th round pick
Manson- transfer guy
Cornelius- undrafted
Jackson- 2nd round
Baker- undrafted
Caldwell- 3rd round
And not a single NFL starter on the o-line. Now please tell me more about this stacked team Zook left that people always talk about. Somehow we managed to have a top 25 offense with that talent, but you're telling me Muschamp didn't have enough talent to not have an offense in the 100's?
Muschamp was awful and his offensive philosophy is just dumb and bad, especially for a school in the south (especially in Florida). The program is in worse shape now than it was when Muschamp took over.
Call me crazy, but if Jeff Driskel was playing for Urban Meyer and had Tom Herman as his OC from Day 1 he would have become a good QB.
Only going by the draft picks?okay.
Well two of the guys you mentioned were initially signed as QBs and didn't become that TE and FB until 2011. Before that they were still pretending to be QBs along with Brantley. I think Muschamp probably would have loved to have that Chris Leak guy on the team for two years instead of the mess he had.
Xavier Nixon? The guy that could very well own the NCAA record for false starts?
In reality, he inherited an offensive line that had just been decimated for a couple years as all the best and experienced linemen went to the NFL before 2011.
What receivers did Meyer leave us? I recall Meyer being left guys like Caldwell and Baker and a TE named Casey. The running back situation would at least be a wash, considering the guys left for either coach weren't ones that fit their systems.
The OL was very solid as well coming in 2005. Just because they weren't NFL guys means Jack and you know it.
The offense Meyer inherited led the SEC the previous year. Do we remember that 2010 Florida "offense?"
Well two of the guys you mentioned were initially signed as QBs and didn't become that TE and FB until 2011. Before that they were still pretending to be QBs along with Brantley. I think Muschamp probably would have loved to have that Chris Leak guy on the team for two years instead of the mess he had.
Xavier Nixon? The guy that could very well own the NCAA record for false starts?
In reality, he inherited an offensive line that had just been decimated for a couple years as all the best and experienced linemen went to the NFL before 2011.
What receivers did Meyer leave us? I recall Meyer being left guys like Caldwell and Baker and a TE named Casey. The running back situation would at least be a wash, considering the guys left for either coach weren't ones that fit their systems.
The OL was very solid as well coming in 2005. Just because they weren't NFL guys means Jack and you know it.
The offense Meyer inherited led the SEC the previous year. Do we remember that 2010 Florida "offense?"
Don't forget that Zook left Meyer with the 2006 national championship defense. That entire defensive line and linebacking crew was all Zook's recruiting and to this day it stands as our best ever defense at this school. Urban Meyer didn't recruit a single one of those players. Of the major contributors in that national title game, Urban brought in Tim Tebow, Percy Harvin, and the two Pouncey twins.
When he left here, what offensive talent did he leave us? Where was all the talent on the defensive side of the ball? He basically had Janoris Jenkins on the defense who was a standout player and that kid got booted before playing a single game for Muschamp due to his drug habit.
Talent aside, Urban Meyer left a highly divisive locker room situation for Muschamp to clean up. Remember how he had his beloved players who didn't even need to show up for practice and they were still starters, and the others would work hard day after day and never ever get their Rudy payoff for any of it. He played favorites on his team, I remember them constantly coming out to his house in Melrose causing all sorts of trouble in our neighborhood, and that made the locker room split. Don't forget he tried to shove Addazzio down our throats as well and the players had Z E R O respect for that guy. Muschamp took over a program that was fractured in the locker room, lacking all the top name talent and had basically been neglected and not developed behind the Tim Tebow crew as they never saw playing time. I won't put the bad QB's on Urban, even though John Brantley was his recruit and was his failure to prepare the kid to take over after Timbow.
Urban left this program a smoking ruined shell. He even admitted that Florida was a broken program after leaving here, said so publicly. I have hope for Coach Mac as he's walking into a better situation at least with the current roster than Muschamp did.
Well seeing as how opinions on players and their careers tend to differ, I went with NFL picks to remove both my personal opinions and your personal opinions. If I recall you weren't a fan of Chris Leak for example. So I thought that was the most fair metric.
Now if you want to argue the offense was undeveloped, fine by me. I actually agree with that. Addazio was in over his head as OC and OL coach and as a result we basically let two units go to waste. Our o-line got no coaching for 2 years. We had multiple QB, WR coaches, etc. So guys were undeveloped. But as far as raw talent? Nah, I can't agree Meyer left some trainwreck. You know where I stand on the guy, I don't like him. But way too much of our current situation gets put on him. Like I said in the other thread, Foley is the one primarily responsible for what we are right now. We had enough talent to win 9-10 games consistently the last 3-4 years at a minimum.
Geez so much fail in this post IMO.
For one the 2006 UF defense wasn't as good as the 2008 UF defense. When Meyer won the national title in 2006 that was only his 2nd year on the job. How many players would you really expect to contribute to that team with just 2 recruiting classes and one of those classes being a transition class. Also the Pouncey twins were not a part of the 2006 team. The Pouncey twins were a part of the 2007 recruiting class
Defensive talent? Are you serious? When Muschamp took over we had these defensive players on the roster:
Easley, Floyd, Jaye Howard, Lerentee McCray, Ronald Powell, Jon Bostic, Jelani Jenkins, Janoris Jenkins, Lou Purifoy, Marcus Roberson, Cody Riggs, Matt Elam, Josh Evans & Jaylen Watkins.
I didn't care for Leak as much as most people, but seriously? Come on if we have him as a senior in 2012 we go undefeated and win the national title (or at very worst lose a matchup against Bama).
We saw what Meyer would have done with the guys he left us, it was called 2010.
We saw what Meyer would have done with the guys he left us, it was called 2010.
I don't disagree and have shared similar opinions about our 12' season. My only point in all this is to say that neither coach really inherited a loaded roster offensively. Meyer inherited the better QB, but that's somewhat negated by the fact that Leak was completely ill-fit for his system. The difference really was in that first recruiting class. Meyer stacked his class offensively which paid off 2 years later while Muschamp's first real class had 1 RB, 2 WR, 2 OL, and Skylar Morninwegh. That's ultimately what did him in.
Is it fair to keep blaming some one who won 2 NC's. OK fine Meyer left program in bad shape but gave us 2 NC's. Muschamp had 4 years, what did he do? Why did he not recruit another QB, why not develop JD, why why why its all Meyer's fault. 4 years under muschamp the program is ruined and it has nothing to do with Meyer who won here. 4 years since he left, we are still blaming him, its been FOUR years! No its NOT MEYER's fault not even a bit.
I like the simple minded ones who say the same broad sweeping statements over and over.
You know, the ones that think any criticism of Meyer means "You guys stop blaming Meyer!!!!!" and ironically like to give 100% blame for everything to Muschamp. Funny how that works.
You know, the ones that think any criticism of Meyer means "You guys stop blaming Meyer!!!!!" and ironically like to give 100% blame for everything to Muschamp. Funny how that works.
Danny, it's only because Meyer is, at worst, tied for the best coach in the nation and Muschump was historically incompetent when he got his chance.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Reasonable criticism and observations shouldn't equal "you just blame everything on Meyer!"
Yet that is apparently how do people interpret things.
And yes, I think it's funny that in the same breath, people will bemoan any criticism of Meyer as unfair while yelling about how everything was always all Muschamp's fault. The logic behind that way of thinking has always entertained me.
Yet that is apparently how do people interpret things.
And yes, I think it's funny that in the same breath, people will bemoan any criticism of Meyer as unfair while yelling about how everything was always all Muschamp's fault. The logic behind that way of thinking has always entertained me.
FOUR YEARS! No nothing can be some one's fault that left Four years ago. Four years mean Four recruiting classes, four seasons, four tries to make a QB better, four chances to get a QB if one isn't working out. four chances to fix what the last guy broke. So sorry it is that simple, Nothing is Meyer's fault what so ever after 4 years but it is fault of the guy who ran things to ground in four years. It is as simple my friend.
Truth is that Muschamp left two gaping holes, OL and QB.
The lack of singees and misses on those two fronts have put you in the position that you are in.
The lack of singees and misses on those two fronts have put you in the position that you are in.
For those of you who aren't sure what I've been describing when I talk about people yelling about blaming Meyer, please see the above.
Some people have zero reading comprehension.
Nobody argues Meyer didn't leave the program in somewhat tough shape. I say somewhat, because he also left behind about 20 nfl draft picks. Only that Champ had plenty of time to sort them out and didn't. And while both left behind some problems for his successor to fix, Meyer won us two national titles in the process, which again is more in a five year span than a lot of very good programs have in their history, so he gets a pass with me. The only thing Muschamp left behind is sweat stains and dumb quotes.
I am certainly not one of them! Reading your thoughts over couple of years and what ultimately happened which most of us including me with very little football knowledge knew about chump loser, its hard to take you serious. Regardless, not sure what profession you are in but I can tell you are not in, never have or probably never will be in a position of making tough business decisions, run organizations or any thing where you have to leave out your emotions and personal biases out to make a sane decision or a balanced argument so let me make it simple. I am not arguing for sake of arguing, I am just making it simple which indeed is a very simple thing, that is, Urban Meyer has Nothing to do with UF's football demise. He never had anything to do with in my opinion but in year 4 since he left, there is just absolutely nothing what so ever that can be blamed on Urban Meyer. There is no Ifs or buts about it period!
UF's problem today can be debated, it is either a gutless loser that was at helm in guise of some defensive genius or an Athletics Director who brought emotions in to business decision making but it sure as hell not Urban Meyer. My opinion is 70% loser chump and 30% AD but that is a different debate.
So to make point simple, there is nothing to comprehend at all in any thing that put even slightest of the blame on Urban Meyer for what happened in 2013 and 2014 period. There is just isnt, if Urban left Brantley, too bad, go recruit a better one, if he left JD, too bad go out and recruit one. Problem is that the loser at helm was incompetent, entitled, a person with low IQ and simply not a leader.
Therefore, either just shut up about a coach that did more than any one else for UF program, simply won here or continue to make a fool out of yourself. In about two years, you are the only person who has been proven absolutely wrong so just give it up. There is nothing wrong with being wrong, its OK but dont be an arrogant asshole trying to find logics where there are none....
UF's problem today can be debated, it is either a gutless loser that was at helm in guise of some defensive genius or an Athletics Director who brought emotions in to business decision making but it sure as hell not Urban Meyer. My opinion is 70% loser chump and 30% AD but that is a different debate.
So to make point simple, there is nothing to comprehend at all in any thing that put even slightest of the blame on Urban Meyer for what happened in 2013 and 2014 period. There is just isnt, if Urban left Brantley, too bad, go recruit a better one, if he left JD, too bad go out and recruit one. Problem is that the loser at helm was incompetent, entitled, a person with low IQ and simply not a leader.
Therefore, either just shut up about a coach that did more than any one else for UF program, simply won here or continue to make a fool out of yourself. In about two years, you are the only person who has been proven absolutely wrong so just give it up. There is nothing wrong with being wrong, its OK but dont be an arrogant asshole trying to find logics where there are none....
Listen 557, here's the thing.
You act like a small child. Even in your last post you again bring up the ridiculous claim that people think everything is Meyer's fault.
Funny, because nobody says that, you and your exclamation points make you look like a child.
So you hate Muschamp....a man hired at the age of 39 who accepts a very high profile job at a position he had never performed before. Yes he had his faults, and likely shouldn't have been hired based off of his experience, but you will sit here as a man and claim A) you've ever been in a novice at your job and B) ever attained the same level of success as Muschamp.
Let's examine the classic "midline" quote.
Tell me, sir, have you ever had a job where you are publicly ridiculed by people that know nothing about your job? Do you know why he brought up the "midline?" Because he was making a point to the press, who know next to nothing about the way football and games actually work, that they can try to second guess a coach but in reality, they don't have a clue, the angry fans don't have a clueof what actually goes on.
You hate him and think he's abysmal at everything and a huge Dick.
I wonder how you would respond to people like you, outsiders, complaining about your decisions and performance when you sincerely have no idea what you're talking about. I'm sure you'd be gracious.
Now, what else? Oh yes, I know nothing about hiring, nor firing people. Funny, I've had to do both in several fields. So you know what I think about you? I think you'd be an awful boss. Right? I mean, afterall, you obviously won't give a young guy the oppurtunity to prove himself, and at the first sign of struggle, you'll turn your back on him.
What you should do is admit that you're a highly emotional and irrational fan who applies rules to his favorite teams coach but never to himself....unless of course you never struggled at anything and had to learn from your mistakes?
P.S- Nibody blames Meyer for everything. Learn how to read. Also, nobody claims that nothing is Muschamp's fault. Again. Learn how to read. Hooked On Phonics might work for you.
What's funny is that I'm considered an irrational drunk, yet I use far more logic than people like you. How does that make you feel? Can you defend yourself? As a man? Or do you realize how childish you sound while you and your ilk spout out your vitriole against Muschamp
You act like a small child. Even in your last post you again bring up the ridiculous claim that people think everything is Meyer's fault.
Funny, because nobody says that, you and your exclamation points make you look like a child.
So you hate Muschamp....a man hired at the age of 39 who accepts a very high profile job at a position he had never performed before. Yes he had his faults, and likely shouldn't have been hired based off of his experience, but you will sit here as a man and claim A) you've ever been in a novice at your job and B) ever attained the same level of success as Muschamp.
Let's examine the classic "midline" quote.
Tell me, sir, have you ever had a job where you are publicly ridiculed by people that know nothing about your job? Do you know why he brought up the "midline?" Because he was making a point to the press, who know next to nothing about the way football and games actually work, that they can try to second guess a coach but in reality, they don't have a clue, the angry fans don't have a clueof what actually goes on.
You hate him and think he's abysmal at everything and a huge Dick.
I wonder how you would respond to people like you, outsiders, complaining about your decisions and performance when you sincerely have no idea what you're talking about. I'm sure you'd be gracious.
Now, what else? Oh yes, I know nothing about hiring, nor firing people. Funny, I've had to do both in several fields. So you know what I think about you? I think you'd be an awful boss. Right? I mean, afterall, you obviously won't give a young guy the oppurtunity to prove himself, and at the first sign of struggle, you'll turn your back on him.
What you should do is admit that you're a highly emotional and irrational fan who applies rules to his favorite teams coach but never to himself....unless of course you never struggled at anything and had to learn from your mistakes?
P.S- Nibody blames Meyer for everything. Learn how to read. Also, nobody claims that nothing is Muschamp's fault. Again. Learn how to read. Hooked On Phonics might work for you.
What's funny is that I'm considered an irrational drunk, yet I use far more logic than people like you. How does that make you feel? Can you defend yourself? As a man? Or do you realize how childish you sound while you and your ilk spout out your vitriole against Muschamp
A. Foley is at fault, not Muschamp.
B. It is clear now we should have cut Champ loose after '13.
C. As I told Danny and others, his mentality and philosophy were never a fit in the House that Spurrier built. I said it from day one, it wasn't he's from UGa, its because a fanbase who considers Spurrier a diety was never going to be OK with a coach who saw punting as a field position weapon. Outside of winning the SEC at Saban like rates, his shelf life at UF was limited. Notice even the 11-1 season was met with tempeted enthusiasm. Again, see Foley.
B. It is clear now we should have cut Champ loose after '13.
C. As I told Danny and others, his mentality and philosophy were never a fit in the House that Spurrier built. I said it from day one, it wasn't he's from UGa, its because a fanbase who considers Spurrier a diety was never going to be OK with a coach who saw punting as a field position weapon. Outside of winning the SEC at Saban like rates, his shelf life at UF was limited. Notice even the 11-1 season was met with tempeted enthusiasm. Again, see Foley.
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