Hocke Not Allowing Players to Drink Water During Heavy Exercise is Medically Harmful

[Jeff from Jax]

"For example, director of strength and conditioning Mark Hocke has a rule that prohibits players from drinking water during their workouts. They’re encouraged to hydrate before and after but are forbidden from doing so during the workout."

“That’s awful,” Eguakun joked. “I hate that one. I hope he sees this. The water break thing is horrible because, you’ve got to think, I’m over here throwing some weight up, breathing hard. I’m not going to argue with Coach. It is what it is.”

https://www.gatorcountry.com/feature/eguakun-enjoying-improved-player-experience-under-napier/

My sister is former hospital Dietitian who just stepped down from the UCF faculty. She is extremely negative about Hocke's policy.

Perhaps Napier should get 2nd opinions from some of the health professionals on his staff; or wait, there is a medical school on campus; perhaps they would know!

Hocke is wrong & is endangering the players with his stupidity.

His certifications include CSCCC Certified (a semi professional organization; not a degree), FMS Screen Certified (The Functional Movement Screen (FMS) is a tool that will improve objectivity and collaboration between the professions of physical therapy, strength and conditioning and athletic training. Maybe !) as well as USA Weightlifting Level 1 Sports Performance Coach Certified.

Typical strength coach with no academic background !

So how much water should you drink before, during, and after a workout? First, make sure you’re well hydrated to begin with. Drink fluids throughout the day before you exercise. Then follow this formula from Melton:

• One to two hours before your workout, drink 15 to 20 ounces of water
• 15 minutes before you begin, drink between 8 and 10 ounces of water
• During your workout, drink another 8 ounces every 15 minutes.

“Your ability to perform athletically can decline with a very small amount of dehydration,” says Carlson, director of performance nutrition for Athletes’ Performance, which trains many of the world’s top athletes. “Just losing 2% of your body weight in fluid can decrease performance by up to 25%.”

“When you’re working out, you’re more likely to be losing water, both through your breath and through sweat,” says Renee Melton, MS, RD, LD, director of nutrition for Sensei, a developer of online and mobile weight loss and nutrition programs. “If you start out dehydrated, you won’t get a good workout. You’ll get dizzy, lethargic, your muscles won’t work as well, you won’t feel as sharp mentally, and you’ll get cramps sooner.”

That’s because water helps your body to exercise efficiently. It lubricates your entire body -- without it, you’re like the Tin Man without his oil. It’s a vital part of the many chemical reactions in the body. “If these reactions slow down then tissues heal slower, muscle recovery is slower and the body is not functioning at 100% efficiency,” says Trent Nessler, PT, DPT, MPT, managing director of Baptist Sports Medicine in Nashville.

Can You Drink Too Much Water?​

It’s possible to drink too much water, but difficult to do. There is a condition called hyponatremia, usually found in endurance athletes. With hyponatremia, the blood becomes excessively diluted from too much water and sodium levels drop to dangerously low levels. This can lead to nausea, headaches, confusion, fatigue, and in extreme cases, coma and death.

But you’d have to drink gallons of water to suffer hyponatremia -- enough to gain weight over the course of a workout, which is rare.

Napier needs to replace this idiot before someone collapses & suffers a serious medical problem !

 

[gatorshime]

"For example, director of strength and conditioning Mark Hocke has a rule that prohibits players from drinking water during their workouts. They’re encouraged to hydrate before and after but are forbidden from doing so during the workout."

“That’s awful,” Eguakun joked. “I hate that one. I hope he sees this. The water break thing is horrible because, you’ve got to think, I’m over here throwing some weight up, breathing hard. I’m not going to argue with Coach. It is what it is.”

https://www.gatorcountry.com/feature/eguakun-enjoying-improved-player-experience-under-napier/

My sister is former hospital Dietitian who just stepped down from the UCF faculty. She is extremely negative about Hocke's policy.

Perhaps Napier should get 2nd opinions from some of the health professionals on his staff; or wait, there is a medical school on campus; perhaps they would know.

Hocke is wrong & is endangering the players with his stupidity.

His certifications include CSCCC Certified (a semi professional organization; not a degree), FMS Screen Certified (The Functional Movement Screen (FMS) is a tool that will improve objectivity and collaboration between the professions of physical therapy, strength and conditioning and athletic training. Maybe !) as well as USA Weightlifting Level 1 Sports Performance Coach Certified.

Typical strength coach with no academic background !

So how much water should you drink before, during, and after a workout? First, make sure you’re well hydrated to begin with. Drink fluids throughout the day before you exercise. Then follow this formula from Melton:

• One to two hours before your workout, drink 15 to 20 ounces of water
• 15 minutes before you begin, drink between 8 and 10 ounces of water
• During your workout, drink another 8 ounces every 15 minutes.

“Your ability to perform athletically can decline with a very small amount of dehydration,” says Carlson, director of performance nutrition for Athletes’ Performance, which trains many of the world’s top athletes. “Just losing 2% of your body weight in fluid can decrease performance by up to 25%.”

“When you’re working out, you’re more likely to be losing water, both through your breath and through sweat,” says Renee Melton, MS, RD, LD, director of nutrition for Sensei, a developer of online and mobile weight loss and nutrition programs. “If you start out dehydrated, you won’t get a good workout. You’ll get dizzy, lethargic, your muscles won’t work as well, you won’t feel as sharp mentally, and you’ll get cramps sooner.”

That’s because water helps your body to exercise efficiently. It lubricates your entire body -- without it, you’re like the Tin Man without his oil. It’s a vital part of the many chemical reactions in the body. “If these reactions slow down then tissues heal slower, muscle recovery is slower and the body is not functioning at 100% efficiency,” says Trent Nessler, PT, DPT, MPT, managing director of Baptist Sports Medicine in Nashville.

Can You Drink Too Much Water?​

It’s possible to drink too much water, but difficult to do. There is a condition called hyponatremia, usually found in endurance athletes. With hyponatremia, the blood becomes excessively diluted from too much water and sodium levels drop to dangerously low levels. This can lead to nausea, headaches, confusion, fatigue, and in extreme cases, coma and death.

But you’d have to drink gallons of water to suffer hyponatremia -- enough to gain weight over the course of a workout, which is rare.

Napier needs to replace this idiot before someone collapses & suffers a serious medical problem !

Lifting is one thing, cardio is another. If he prohibits it when someone just did a few miles on a treadmill, that would be crazy.

 

[Nole-4-Life]

I played high school ball in the 70s. They withheld water, we got one water break a session. Said if we drank water we'd cramp up. They also gave us salt pills.

I'm surprised we lived thru it.

 

[Gator Fever]

Lifting it's probably no big deal if you hydrate beforehand and have the AC set kind of low. Still think it's a dumb rule though.

 

[ocalaman]

I have no idea. There are so many "scientific theories" about how to make the best athlete. I'm just a fan of the Florida Gators wanting them to succeed.

 

[TOJN_Gator]

"For example, director of strength and conditioning Mark Hocke has a rule that prohibits players from drinking water during their workouts. They’re encouraged to hydrate before and after but are forbidden from doing so during the workout."

“That’s awful,” Eguakun joked. “I hate that one. I hope he sees this. The water break thing is horrible because, you’ve got to think, I’m over here throwing some weight up, breathing hard. I’m not going to argue with Coach. It is what it is.”

https://www.gatorcountry.com/feature/eguakun-enjoying-improved-player-experience-under-napier/

My sister is former hospital Dietitian who just stepped down from the UCF faculty. She is extremely negative about Hocke's policy.

Perhaps Napier should get 2nd opinions from some of the health professionals on his staff; or wait, there is a medical school on campus; perhaps they would know!

Hocke is wrong & is endangering the players with his stupidity.

His certifications include CSCCC Certified (a semi professional organization; not a degree), FMS Screen Certified (The Functional Movement Screen (FMS) is a tool that will improve objectivity and collaboration between the professions of physical therapy, strength and conditioning and athletic training. Maybe !) as well as USA Weightlifting Level 1 Sports Performance Coach Certified.

Typical strength coach with no academic background !

So how much water should you drink before, during, and after a workout? First, make sure you’re well hydrated to begin with. Drink fluids throughout the day before you exercise. Then follow this formula from Melton:

• One to two hours before your workout, drink 15 to 20 ounces of water
• 15 minutes before you begin, drink between 8 and 10 ounces of water
• During your workout, drink another 8 ounces every 15 minutes.

“Your ability to perform athletically can decline with a very small amount of dehydration,” says Carlson, director of performance nutrition for Athletes’ Performance, which trains many of the world’s top athletes. “Just losing 2% of your body weight in fluid can decrease performance by up to 25%.”

“When you’re working out, you’re more likely to be losing water, both through your breath and through sweat,” says Renee Melton, MS, RD, LD, director of nutrition for Sensei, a developer of online and mobile weight loss and nutrition programs. “If you start out dehydrated, you won’t get a good workout. You’ll get dizzy, lethargic, your muscles won’t work as well, you won’t feel as sharp mentally, and you’ll get cramps sooner.”

That’s because water helps your body to exercise efficiently. It lubricates your entire body -- without it, you’re like the Tin Man without his oil. It’s a vital part of the many chemical reactions in the body. “If these reactions slow down then tissues heal slower, muscle recovery is slower and the body is not functioning at 100% efficiency,” says Trent Nessler, PT, DPT, MPT, managing director of Baptist Sports Medicine in Nashville.

Can You Drink Too Much Water?​

It’s possible to drink too much water, but difficult to do. There is a condition called hyponatremia, usually found in endurance athletes. With hyponatremia, the blood becomes excessively diluted from too much water and sodium levels drop to dangerously low levels. This can lead to nausea, headaches, confusion, fatigue, and in extreme cases, coma and death.

But you’d have to drink gallons of water to suffer hyponatremia -- enough to gain weight over the course of a workout, which is rare.

Napier needs to replace this idiot before someone collapses & suffers a serious medical problem !

Sorry Charlie but you are wrong. Did you cut and paste that from industry funded organizations that espouse this theory? Go read Waterlogged by Dr. Tim Noakes and then get back to me:

Amazon product ASIN B0081U6WWG
The whole you've got to regularly hydrate during exercise theory is bullshit. It is based on bad science coming from industry funded studies -- and yes that means first and foremost the Gatorade Sports Science Institute (which isn't in any way funded by UF it has been funded by Coke or Pepsi whichever owns Gatorade at the time). Elite marathoners drink virtually nothing in their 2+ hour efforts. If you've ever run a road race really fast you know. You can't get anything down you are breathing so hard. You can basically wet your lips and mouth but can't get down any significant fluid.

When elite marathoners were tested before and after races for hydration levels, there was actually a correlation between hydration and performance. But the opposite of what most would think. Higher dehydration levels correlated with faster times -- the most dehydrated were faster. Virtually all of them were dehydrated to some level of another.

University based nutrition educators, and organizations such as dietitian credentialing organizations, are also the same people still recommending low fat diets because fat is allegedly bad for you. And it will allegedly make you fat. Also completed debunked. The initial studies by Ancel Keys which led to the diet-heart hypothesis were actually fraudulent -- he manipulated the data used to get the conclusion he wanted, Anyone who has followed a paleo or keto diet and watch their health and blood values improve will tell you so.

As pointed out by @Nole-4-Life above, it is a wonder all these football players survived for a 100 years practicing in brutal heat without water and simply popping salt tablets (which by the way also did nothing).

 

[Gator Fever]

Not sure about all this but if you are thirsty and can slip in a drink I think that is best. When I used to do that ironman like competition in the Army (20 miles up and down hills fully loaded with 100 plus pounds of gear) in the heat of the summer I doubt I would have made it to the end with no water with how much was lost. Unlike a marathon there are times with how you pace yourself that you can down water pretty easily. I just don't see how restricting some water during training helps.

 

[KingofHedgehogs]

Regardless whether you agree with it or not, and no matter your reasons,......its a lawsuit waiting to happen. If you don't see that possibility than you've likely never heard of Grant Brace.

It may not have to result in a death, but any medical condition that can be argued that was caused by a lack of hydration.

 

[Jeff from Jax]

Sorry Charlie but you are wrong. Did you cut and paste that from industry funded organizations that espouse this theory? Go read Waterlogged by Dr. Tim Noakes and then get back to me:

TOJN​

How many patients have you treated for dehydration & heat stroke ?

My sister just retired from the UCF faculty & yes, she was a university based nutrition educators, and dietitian not a member of an industry funded organizations.

The actual name of Noakes' book is "Waterlogged:

The Serious Problem of Overhydration in Endurance Sports"​

How many 300 lb marathoners have you seen ?

FYI
Kingsley Eguakun felt uncomfortable with Hocke's water policy. Kingsley is 6-4 and 305 lbs ! He is not a marathoner !

Did you consider that the hydration needs of athletes with dissimilar body shapes & sizes, on different training regimens, for different athletic activities, would have different hydration needs ?

Or, are you a One-size fits all idiot ?

Strength & Conditioning for football is not an endurance sport; they are not running a marathon !

Your comments about fat have nothing to do with hydration; why did you include them ?

Your comments about hyponatremia for marathoners have nothing to do with Strength & Conditioning at UF; why include them ?

You have taken some event specific information out of context & produced a knee jerk reaction that has no relationship to the UF environment under discussion !

Perhaps Napier will be smart enough to consult with some of the "university based nutrition educators, and dietitians" on his staff.

Better yet, since your kidneys remove wastes and extra fluid from your body, and the acid that is produced by the cells of your body and maintain a healthy balance of water, salts, and minerals—such as sodium, calcium, phosphorus, and potassium—in your blood.

Perhaps Napier will be concerned enough about avoiding a law suit, that he will consult with
Kody Ebach - Division Administrator
Division of Nephrology
1600 SW Archer Road- conveniently located on the UF Campus
Room CG-98, Communicore Building
Department of Medicine, College of Medicine
Gainesville, FL 32610-0224
Administration Office Phone: 352.273.8821

WSBND - Acronym for - Would Should Billy Napier Do

Make a free campus phone call or allow a medical emergency / lawsuit to happen ?

OLD HABITS DIE HARD - READ BELOW, ONLY IF MOTIVATED - LOL
https://www.loyolamedicine.org/about-us/blog/athletes-drinking-too-much-water-can-be-fatal

Tojn,

Much of Knokes' Book is based on a 2014 study done by
Loyola Medicine family medicine and sports medicine physician James Winger, MD.

Overhydration by athletes is called exercise-associated hyponatremia. It occurs when athletes drink even when they are not thirsty.

Drinking too much during exercise can overwhelm the body’s ability to remove water. The sodium content of blood is diluted to abnormally low levels. Cells absorb excess water, which can cause dangerous swelling in the brain.

Hyponatremia can cause muscle cramps, nausea, vomiting, seizures, unconsciousness and, in rare cases, death. In recent years there have been more than a dozen documented and suspected deaths from hyponatremia among recreational runners and high school athletes.

In 2015, Dr. Winger helped re-write guidelines regarding exercise associated hyponatremia and those new guidelines, along with the original study, are available to read here.

Dr. Winger said it’s common for coaches to encourage athletes to drink profusely before they get thirsty. But he noted that expert guidelines recommend athletes drink only when thirsty;
& HOCKE, they should drink whenever they get thirsty.

Dr. Winger also recommends athletes should not drink a predetermined amount or try to get ahead of their thirst. Drinking only when thirsty can cause mild dehydration, which is normal and does not harm performance in real-world studies.

“However, the risks associated with dehydration are small,” Dr. Winger said. “No one has died on sports fields from dehydration, and the adverse effects of mild dehydration are questionable. But athletes, on rare occasions, have died from overhydration."

Winger used to be a recreational runner. In 2011, he looked at the hydration needs of runners.

Dr. Winger is co-author of a 2011 study that found that nearly half of Chicago-area recreational runners surveyed may be drinking too much fluid during races.

In the study, Dr. Winger and colleagues found that, contrary to expert guidelines, 36.5% of runners drink according to a preset schedule or to maintain a certain body weight and 8.9% drink as much as possible.

WHO CARES ?

Both you, Tojn, & Dr Winger seems predisposed to focus on the hydration needs of runners.

PAY ATTENTION

The subject of this thread is the hydration needs of UF's football players.

The UF football team has no marathon runners, no distance runners (5,000 m & up), & few, if any, recreational runners.

While UF football player Jeff Demps medaled in the 2012 Olympics, he was only 5-8, 190.
In track, Demps won NCAA titles in the 100 meters outdoors and 60 meters indoors. He won a silver medal at the London Games in the 4x100 relay.

AGAIN - KINGSLEY EGUAKUN is 6-4. 305 & has hydration needs totally different from a recreational distance runner.

 

[TOJN_Gator]

TOJN​

How many patients have you treated for dehydration & heat stroke ?

My sister just retired from the UCF faculty & yes, she was a university based nutrition educators, and dietitian not an industry funded organizations.

The actual name of Noakes' book is "Waterlogged:

The Serious Problem of Overhydration in Endurance Sports"​

How many 300 lb marathoners have you seen ?

FYI
Kingsley Eguakun felt uncomfortable with Hocke's water policy. Kingsley is 6-4 and 305 lbs ! He is not a marathoner !

Did you consider that the hydration needs of athletes with dissimilar body shapes & sizes, on different training regimens, for different athletic activities, would have different hydration needs ?

Or, are you a One-size fits all idiot ?

Strength & Conditioning for football is not an endurance sport; they are not running a marathon !

Your comments about fat have nothing to do with hydration; why did you include them ?

Your comments about hyponatremia for marathoners have nothing to do with Strength & Conditioning at UF; why include them ?

You have taken some event specific information out of context & produced a knee jerk reaction that has no relationship to the UF environment under discussion !

Perhaps Napier will be smart enough to consult with some of the "university based nutrition educators, and dietitians" on his staff.

Better yet, since your kidneys remove wastes and extra fluid from your body, and the acid that is produced by the cells of your body and maintain a healthy balance of water, salts, and minerals—such as sodium, calcium, phosphorus, and potassium—in your blood.

Perhaps Napier will be concerned enough about avoiding a law suit, that he will consult with the Division of Nephrology, UF Health Medical School conveniently located on the UF Campus & ask their opinion.

One athlete is already complaining; do you think he made it up or did he experience physical discomfort from the "no exceptions allowed" hydration policy ?

First, I am not the one initiating a post, on a public forum, accusing a group of strength conditioning professionals and saying they are endangering players. You are doing so. That is reckless and, given the circumstances, likely constitutes actionable libel -- particularly since you seem to be throwing out these allegations without the requisite information.

Your entire allegation is based upon the following information in a short article where a player is said by the reporter who interviewed him, and knows the context, to have "joked" about the issue?:

For example, director of strength and conditioning Mark Hocke has a rule that prohibits players from drinking water during their workouts. They’re encouraged to hydrate before and after but are forbidden from doing so during the workout.

“That’s awful,” Eguakun joked. “I hate that one. I hope he sees this. The water break thing is horrible because, you’ve got to think, I’m over here throwing some weight up, breathing hard. I’m not going to argue with Coach. It is what it is.”

How long are the workouts?

What portion of the workout is spent at high intensity?

What is the temperature?

What is the humidity?

Are there fans blowing air on them?

Are environmental factors (heat, humidity, etc.) and length of workout considered by the S&C coaches in deciding the setting of a conditioning workout? (See below re the indoor practice facility).

Were the athletes properly hydrated coming into the workouts? Or did they show up in a dehydrated condition after drinking 12 beers the night before?

What percentage of bodyweight is lost during the workout, presuming all weight loss is attributed to fluid loss? Is body weight loss tracked on a sampling basis?

Are athletes monitored by the conditioning staff for signs of dehydration? And signs of heat exhaustion or heat stroke?

Were the same practices followed by Hocke (and those supervising him) used during his stops at Alabama, Georgia, FSU, Texas A&M, and Louisiana without adverse incident?

Can you answer all the above questions? If not, you ought not be accusing UF, the University Athletic Association, and a big group of coaches and S&C staff of serious malpractice and endangering athletes under their watch.

You clearly have not read Waterlogged and are not familiar with the many studies it cites. And you clearly have not trained serious athletes who are doing heart rate up, high intensity conditioning workouts that last 90 minutes at most (or less).. You likely have never competed at a high level to experience substantial sweat loss in an event that is so intense the whole time you can't even get anything down -- if you had done so you would not be touting this accusatory b.s. (I have done so in multiple sports). Your statement that fluid loss in "endurance athletes" is not relevant to other athletes performing at high intensity (and for substantially shorter periods of time) is absurd. You obviously don't actually train athletes (I do so and actually have qualifications comparable to Hocke's and everyone else on the S&C staff).

You are grabbing at straws. If you don't know the circumstances, sit down and shut up. Your statements are laughable given the information you possess about the circumstances.

Can you answer all the questions I presented above? Go ahead and inform me and see if you can change my mind.

(I can tell you the answer to a couple key ones -- the conditioning workouts are one hour long and they are held in the indoor practice facility.)

 

[Gator Fever]

My argument would be what is being improved by not allowing a quick drink of water even in cool AC area workouts. Just think it's a silly rule in modern times and with the small possibilty someone that came in dehydrated with an undiagnosed health issue could possibly have issues.

 

[KingofHedgehogs]

I know this is probably irrelevant, but the subject reminded me of my childhood. I grew up in the 1980's and 1990's. My older brother and I had a couple of best friends who were also brothers. My bf was Antionne. My brother's bf was Antione. They were also twins. We played sports almost every day. Whenever we played football in the steet, Antionne would have to stop the game every 15 minutes to run and drink water from the hose. Tbh, it annoyed me, my brother, and Antione because we could play the 1 1/2 hour game with no water at all. Antionne kept insisting he had to do this. Looking back, it made me think how dangerous it might have been to Antionne if we shammed him enough not to keep pausing the game.

Nobody knows your body better than you do and a "one size fits all" policy is faulty.

 

[TOJN_Gator]

I am just chuckling at some of the opinions here. And based upon comments of a player who was said to be joking at the time.

Are you guys athletes?

We are talking one hour high intensity workouts. There is zero need to stop and hydrate during a 1 hour high intensity workout. This is safely done by thousands of athletes every single day without drinking during exercise. I used to do it on a regular basis when I was a runner and then when training and racing on the mountain bike. Still do on occasion these days, in my early 50s, although my workouts these days are usually shorter. I complete the workout Murph most every year, an effort which takes me between 38-44 minutes and is done on Memorial Day typically late morning when it is hot as hell. Never stop to drink and first thing I do drink is a beer afterward with buddies who completed it with me.

If someone starts showing the signs of heat exhaustion or heat stroke in a one hour effort, it isn't because of lack of hydrating during such a short workout. And the remedy if that is occurring is to have them stop exercising and you treat the heat exhaustion or heat stroke. Cool water would then be one of the 5 steps in treating them. If we get any actual reports -- not a player who is joking -- that players are experiencing heat exhaustion or heat stroke and the coaches are ignoring them, then we would have a concern on our hands. That is not the scenario here.

 

[sadgator]

sadgator considers himself an expert on drinking at Florida Field…but sadgator’s experience has very little to do with hydration…

 

[Nicktheslick]

Coach Bryant and the junction boys say “hi”

 

[KingofHedgehogs]

There are certain people you really can't debate with, because no matter what, they will refuse to hear anything you say. It doesn't matter what kind of sources you use or stories you've read. Certain people refuse to accept that athletes aren't cookie cutter molds of each other and act like the exceptions shouldn't be considered. Even doctors of different types knows the "one size fits all" mentality can be a folly.

The icing of this proverbial narrow minded cake is to try and belittle or question other's experiances. If we were to tell these certain people what level and area of athletics we've experianced....like we are asked about....do you think it will change the minds of the people asking the question? Of course not.

They will keep going on and on and on untill the people of different views just give up due to seeing the pointless struggle of trying to reason with these certain people.