Basketball Woes

[ocalaman]

It's painful to watch this team play really hard, but find new ways to lose games. Michael Frazier was great tonight and Finney-Smith had a great 1st half. But too many missed free throws, defensive lapses at critical junctures in the game and the consistently poor play from Kasey Hill just killed us. Not sure how many more games I can stand. Am really ready for baseball & softball.

This post was edited on 1/24 8:53 PM by ocalaman

 

[46885]

everyone should have seen that coming in the first half.. Florida loses the same way since I've been alive, they will always do whatever it takes to lose. Kasey hill having the ball was just insulting to my intelligence

 

[ifuaintagatorumustbegatorbait]

At this rate the SEC will only get two bids for March, Tucky and Arky. smh

 

[oozie7]

I'm not really mad about it. But it is pretty crazy that we've been losing games the same way going on about 5 years now. Get a decent lead, extended scoring droughts, and missed free throws down the stretch. I don't know about you guys but I go into every game, even last year, expecting extended scoring droughts and I'm almost never disappointed. Last year was different in that our defense usually held. Not sure how the same issues can continue to happen for such a long period with no fix.

 

[Leesgator]

Originally posted by oozie7:
I'm not really mad about it. But it is pretty crazy that we've been losing games the same way going on about 5 years now. Get a decent lead, extended scoring droughts, and missed free throws down the stretch. I don't know about you guys but I go into every game, even last year, expecting extended scoring droughts and I'm almost never disappointed. Last year was different in that our defense usually held. Not sure how the same issues can continue to happen for such a long period with no fix.

Not to nit pick, but aren't we coming off 4 straight elite 8's? I do agree with you about the free throw shooting. Last few years we've not been too good at the line. This is the 4th game that poor ft shooting cost us.

 

[46885]

Like I said in that other thread awhile back, the one thing you can question Billy on is how AWFUL all of his teams have been for years upon years at end of halves situations. We get scored on at the end of every half then do something stupid with the last shot ourselves or don't even get one off most of the time. It happened both halves again just tonight


that call that gave ole miss the lead was absolutely pathetic though, we weren't allowed to breath in that 2nd half on defense.. The under 8 and under 4 media touch fouls were as bad as it gets. Basketball is just impossible for me to take seriously the way refs keep getting worse every year.

I really can't believe how awful Hill and Walker are, it's just ridiculous. The end of that game summed up everything he is, when was the last time our PG's were ZERO threats from outside?

 

[Gator Fever]

Crazy stuff. I still can't believe Hill and Walker aren't producing hardly. On paper this should be a pretty good team.

 

[Gator Fever]

Originally posted by Leesgator:

Originally posted by oozie7:
I'm not really mad about it. But it is pretty crazy that we've been losing games the same way going on about 5 years now. Get a decent lead, extended scoring droughts, and missed free throws down the stretch. I don't know about you guys but I go into every game, even last year, expecting extended scoring droughts and I'm almost never disappointed. Last year was different in that our defense usually held. Not sure how the same issues can continue to happen for such a long period with no fix.

Not to nit pick, but aren't we coming off 4 straight elite 8's? I do agree with you about the free throw shooting. Last few years we've not been too good at the line. This is the 4th game that poor ft shooting cost us.

Even those elite 8 years we were blowing games like that.

 

[BayAreaGator]

Word Association:

1. Kasey Hill?
2. Chris Walker?

 

[MJWilliamson]

Originally posted by 46885:
everyone should have seen that coming in the first half.. Florida loses the same way since I've been alive, they will always do whatever it takes to lose. Kasey hill having the ball was just insulting to my intelligence

You mean, other than the last four years?

This team is struggling. But the struggles are an aberration, not a trend.

 

[ocalaman]

Billy Donovan usually gets the absolute most out of the team he has, getting them to achieve their full potential or beyond. And the team is normally better than the sum of the individual players. But this year is different in that the individual talent is better than the team. They were overrated going into the season, but they have way underachieved their potential. I think that's what's most frustrating to Donovan. At times they look very, very good, but they can't maintain the consistency and then have lapses during the game where they are absolutely horrible. And I agree that this is an aberration in an otherwise tremendous run of this basketball program under Billy D.

This post was edited on 1/25 4:18 PM by ocalaman

 

[oozie7]

Originally posted by Leesgator:

Originally posted by oozie7:
I'm not really mad about it. But it is pretty crazy that we've been losing games the same way going on about 5 years now. Get a decent lead, extended scoring droughts, and missed free throws down the stretch. I don't know about you guys but I go into every game, even last year, expecting extended scoring droughts and I'm almost never disappointed. Last year was different in that our defense usually held. Not sure how the same issues can continue to happen for such a long period with no fix.

Not to nit pick, but aren't we coming off 4 straight elite 8's? I do agree with you about the free throw shooting. Last few years we've not been too good at the line. This is the 4th game that poor ft shooting cost us.

We're speaking about two different things basically. There's no way to really argue with the success we've had. We've won a lot of games and played above our talent level for the most part. And I think we all expect that to continue under Donovan. What I'm saying is that when we do lose, it tends to be in the same fashion that past few years. Those Elite 8 games are actually a perfect example of that. We had decent leads in 3 of them and just collapsed in the second half. And the two common themes were long scoring droughts and missed free throws, its really hard to explain.

 

[domgator]

One mediocre year does not mean the program is bad or in decline. We just need to suck it up and get through this year. Next year will be a lot better with most of this team returning more experienced and some solid new additions like the 7 foot transfer from USF, a transfer from Stanford, Devon Walker back from injury and a highly rated recruting class. After 4 straight Elite 8's a Final 4 and 2 SEC Championships and losing 4 senior starters a letdown might have been expected. Kentucky didn't make the tourney 2 years ago, Duke lost in first round to Mercer last year, it happens to every program. UF will be fine.

 

[bradleygator]

Playing under Billy d either breaks you or makes you. Billy breaks his players down, as opposed to callipari, who is more encouraging and fills his young guys withh confidence. If you're strong minded and can take the pressure you will end up like noah, young, parsons, david lee, Taurean green etc..., who came into the program as limited players and left as great college players. If you are not tough enough, you will end up transferred out or a washout. It's still up in the air which direction these guys are going to go. Billy has essentially said he's not compromising and if these guys can't play the way he wants this year, then he is going to focus on coaching them up for next year.

It's crazy to say it's an aberration that we miss free throws and blow leads. Billy ' s teams do that consistently. Its because of the pressure he puts on them. It usually works out in the long run, and you can't argue with the results, but this year's team is not responding well and Billy certainly isn't going to change up what he does.

 

[Leesgator]

Originally posted by oozie7:

Originally posted by Leesgator:

Originally posted by oozie7:
I'm not really mad about it. But it is pretty crazy that we've been losing games the same way going on about 5 years now. Get a decent lead, extended scoring droughts, and missed free throws down the stretch. I don't know about you guys but I go into every game, even last year, expecting extended scoring droughts and I'm almost never disappointed. Last year was different in that our defense usually held. Not sure how the same issues can continue to happen for such a long period with no fix.

Not to nit pick, but aren't we coming off 4 straight elite 8's? I do agree with you about the free throw shooting. Last few years we've not been too good at the line. This is the 4th game that poor ft shooting cost us.

We're speaking about two different things basically. There's no way to really argue with the success we've had. We've won a lot of games and played above our talent level for the most part. And I think we all expect that to continue under Donovan. What I'm saying is that when we do lose, it tends to be in the same fashion that past few years. Those Elite 8 games are actually a perfect example of that. We had decent leads in 3 of them and just collapsed in the second half. And the two common themes were long scoring droughts and missed free throws, its really hard to explain.

Makes sense.

 

[Gator Fever]

Besides Walker not developing our main issue is Hill is not a long range shooting threat at all and it allows our opponents to focus on the 3 guys we have that can actually score. If Hill could shoot out there I think this team would be top tier.

 

[txngtr]

When you have a one armed walk on get suspended, you knew we were in for a long year.

 

[MJWilliamson]

Originally posted by bradleygator:

It's crazy to say it's an aberration that we miss free throws and blow leads. Billy ' s teams do that consistently.

This piqued my interest. Becasue I have memories of many Billy D coached teams that were outstanding FT shooting teams. In fact, I would guess the majority of them have done that. I need to look it up to verify it though.

In fact, when they don't shoot FTs well, it stands out. In those years where his teams have been poor at the line, it does cost us some games, so the memory stand out.

 

[MJWilliamson]

I went back and looked. In the seventeen years since Billy went to his 1st NCAA tournament, as a team Florida has shot better than 70% from the FT line in 10 of those years. I consider 70% to be the minimum accomplishment that defines a good FT shooting team.

However, the last time we shot better than 70% was in 2012, when we shot 71.3%. And only two of the last seven teams have been over 70%

So, I can well see how people think all Billy's teams shoot poorly, given that the last three teams have not done as well. This year we are an anemic 65.9%.

But good shooting at the FT line seems to be a Billy ball trait, more often than not. We need to get that back on track.

 

[46885]

Originally posted by MJWilliamson:

Originally posted by 46885:
everyone should have seen that coming in the first half.. Florida loses the same way since I've been alive, they will always do whatever it takes to lose. Kasey hill having the ball was just insulting to my intelligence

You mean, other than the last four years?

This team is struggling. But the struggles are an aberration, not a trend.

Billys teams have been losing like this for years and years. We lose more close games than everyone else combined over the years. Hell it's the same in football too

 

[oozie7]

Originally posted by MJWilliamson:
I went back and looked. In the seventeen years since Billy went to his 1st NCAA tournament, as a team Florida has shot better than 70% from the FT line in 10 of those years. I consider 70% to be the minimum accomplishment that defines a good FT shooting team.

However, the last time we shot better than 70% was in 2012, when we shot 71.3%. And only two of the last seven teams have been over 70%

So, I can well see how people think all Billy's teams shoot poorly, given that the last three teams have not done as well. This year we are an anemic 65.9%.

But good shooting at the FT line seems to be a Billy ball trait, more often than not. We need to get that back on track.

Nice research. That kinda jives with the eye test. The last few years it seems we've been taking a dip, mainly because we don't have a roster full of shooters anymore. In the past we were so perimeter oriented, we would have 3-4 guys, sometimes more, who could just fill it up from outside. That's not really the case now.

 

[bradleygator]

It's not just percentages, either. It's when they miss the free throws. Every one of those second half collapses from the last few years featured multiple one and ones where they missed the front end. Even great shooters like Chandler Parsons would miss those free throws.

I agree with Ooz that it is difficult to reconcile how good Billy is as a coach with missed free throws, turnovers, sloppy play at the end of halves, etc... I'm not complaining. I wouldn't trade Billy D for anyone. It's just a little crazy.

We could be very good next year, but we need some shooting and we need to be more composed with the ball. It's not impossible that we win the SECT this year if Kentucky loses early.

 

[oozie7]

I don't think we'll ever see the percentages take a big rise going forward. I think there's just a fundamental shift in how we play ball now. Back then when we had guys like Roberson, Walsh, etc. we were run and gun on offense with lots of deep threes taken. Since the 04's we've been more balanced and play with a 2-big lineup more often. In the past it was basically 1 big, 4 guards who could do it all. And I think the percentages reflected that. It's just common sense, big guys don't shoot it as well.

 

[MJWilliamson]

Originally posted by oozie7:

I don't think we'll ever see the percentages take a big rise going forward. I think there's just a fundamental shift in how we play ball now. Back then when we had guys like Roberson, Walsh, etc. we were run and gun on offense with lots of deep threes taken. Since the 04's we've been more balanced and play with a 2-big lineup more often. In the past it was basically 1 big, 4 guards who could do it all. And I think the percentages reflected that. It's just common sense, big guys don't shoot it as well.

I will agree with this. And the big aberration this year is that we do not have a post presence. Comine that with poor perimeter shooting and you get a 10-9 season.

 

[MJWilliamson]

Originally posted by bradleygator:
It's not just percentages, either. It's when they miss the free throws.

That is really true. I miss the days when Taurean Green would step to the FT line at the end of a close game and nail every single one.

 

[oozie7]

Originally posted by MJWilliamson:

Originally posted by oozie7:

I don't think we'll ever see the percentages take a big rise going forward. I think there's just a fundamental shift in how we play ball now. Back then when we had guys like Roberson, Walsh, etc. we were run and gun on offense with lots of deep threes taken. Since the 04's we've been more balanced and play with a 2-big lineup more often. In the past it was basically 1 big, 4 guards who could do it all. And I think the percentages reflected that. It's just common sense, big guys don't shoot it as well.

I will agree with this. And the big aberration this year is that we do not have a post presence. Comine that with poor perimeter shooting and you get a 10-9 season.

Yea. When you think about it, it makes sense. When we use to have all those early exits the focus was on our lack of size and how we were too perimeter-oriented. All it took was for us to have a cold night from outside and we were done. We moved away from that with Noah and Horford and now it seems like we only have 1-2 really good shooters on the team each season now. And I think that's reflected in the dip in our FT %.

 

[PJD3883]

Originally posted by MJWilliamson:

Originally posted by bradleygator:
It's not just percentages, either. It's when they miss the free throws.

That is really true. I miss the days when Taurean Green would step to the FT line at the end of a close game and nail every single one.

Focus and nerves. I've seen plenty of 90% FT shooters miss when the game is on the line and have seen the 60% guys be money in the final minute of the game.

FT's are like so many other stats. Shooting a FT when you're up by 20, in the 1st half, isn't gut-wrenching.

Gut-wrenching is when you're attempting the first shot of a one and one with 40 seconds to play and you're down by one.

 

[MJWilliamson]

Originally posted by PJD3883:
Focus and nerves. I've seen plenty of 90% FT shooters miss when the game is on the line and have seen the 60% guys be money in the final minute of the game.

FT's are like so many other stats. Shooting a FT when you're up by 20, in the 1st half, isn't gut-wrenching.

Gut-wrenching is when you're attempting the first shot of a one and one with 40 seconds to play and you're down by one.

Exactly right.

 

[Beezermc]

Originally posted by bradleygator:
Playing under Billy d either breaks you or makes you. Billy breaks his players down, as opposed to callipari, who is more encouraging and fills his young guys withh confidence. If you're strong minded and can take the pressure you will end up like noah, young, parsons, david lee, Taurean green etc..., who came into the program as limited players and left as great college players. If you are not tough enough, you will end up transferred out or a washout. It's still up in the air which direction these guys are going to go. Billy has essentially said he's not compromising and if these guys can't play the way he wants this year, then he is going to focus on coaching them up for next year.

It's crazy to say it's an aberration that we miss free throws and blow leads. Billy ' s teams do that consistently. Its because of the pressure he puts on them. It usually works out in the long run, and you can't argue with the results, but this year's team is not responding well and Billy certainly isn't going to change up what he does.

Calipari encouraging and filling young players with confidence? Not sure if serious...


Billys main problem this year is he doesn't have a rim protector. He can blame himself somewhat, but if Walker was "as advertised" UF probably has 4-5 more wins and is a top 25 team.

Finney Smith and Frazier are what they are, solid high level SEC players who have versatility or a specific skill. Hill is a disappointment, and kind of like Andrew Harrison is struggling playing for a coach who can frankly be a huge ahole, especially to point guards.

 

[46885]

They almost pulled everything it takes to lose again, every game is deja vu.

 

[MJWilliamson]

Originally posted by 46885:
They almost pulled everything it takes to lose again, every game is deja vu.

According to you, Florida ALWAYS loses these games

 

[46885]

if you have halfway paid attention to Florida basketball over the years you would know they lose the majority of those games... They are lucky they were playing Alabama otherwise it would have happened again

 

[MJWilliamson]

Originally posted by 46885:
if you have halfway paid attention to Florida basketball over the years you would know they lose the majority of those games... They are lucky they were playing Alabama otherwise it would have happened again

I have probably been "halfway (paying) attention to Florida basketball" for more years than you have been alive.

I think you newbies need to understand the standard.

By any measure, Florida basketball has been one of the best in the nation "over the years." As long as that means during the Donovan years.

You DO rememer that Florida was in the Final Four last year?

You do remember that last year Florida did something no other team in the history of the SEC has done?

My goodness man. By all means, get upset because Florida has not done well this year. By all means. Billy has raised the standard. We can and do expect excellence. But please don't go into a "woe is me Florida always sucks" routine. You sound like a newbie when you do that. Or even worse, you sound like an entitled UK fan.

 

[46885]

lol woah woah now, you are going an entirely different route. If any of our fans feel comfortable in these close games late in the game then they are either naive or lying. Florida has a knack for blowing these games more than anyone, that's not knocking anyone, it's a fact. It HAPPENS way more than it does not

I've been watching Florida basketball and damn near every game they have played since 1994 as a young kid. Florida is horrendous in late game situations and is about as UN- clutch as humanly possible. This is a very well known thing to our fans by now. Florida loses in more classic fashions than most teams and on a consistent basis. It's happened about 4 times just this year already again. When teams get that last shot/possession on us, it's clutch city and when we get our chance to tie or win at the end?? Just tell me how often we do what teams do to us, if we ever even get a shot off.

 

[Dannygator1989]

I love when people say "but what about back-to-black titles?!?!" or "we went to 4 straight elite 8s" or "do you remember we went to the final four last year?"

That doesn't change reality. Whether we lose or not, numbers is right. We always get played like that. Difference is, this year we don't have the guts to bail us out like the good teams have been able to.

We are Auburn this year.

 

[Leesgator]

They should name the court after Billy. However, his one short coming is games decided by less than 5 points. I believe after last night, at UF, Billy is I think 68-81 now in the close games. That being said, I would trade his crappy record in close games for everything else he has brought to UF. Anybody who argues that point is just an idiot.

 

[PacoGator19]

Billy D = Best coach in UF history (in an sport)

 

[oozie7]

Originally posted by Leesgator:

They should name the court after Billy. However, his one short coming is games decided by less than 5 points. I believe after last night, at UF, Billy is I think 68-81 now in the close games. That being said, I would trade his crappy record in close games for everything else he has brought to UF. Anybody who argues that point is just an idiot.

Interesting stat, didn't know that. Like Numbers, I always felt like we collapsed in these close games, but it was more my observations, I never took the time to look into it. But the numbers support it somewhat. It's really, really odd. One of the good things about our teams under Donovan is that we always play team ball. But at the end of halves and the end of games it all just collapses and then we get scattered and start going iso and heaving off balance shots. The last team to NOT do this was the 07' bunch. Even last year's team did it a good amount.

BTW I disagree with the poster above who said we'd have 4-5 more wins if Walker was a rim protector. He's hardly the problem on this team. Everybody knew coming in he was a super raw player, he was rated highly because of his crazy athleticism. You aren't gonna beat many teams playing 1 on 5 offensively like we do. To me, Hill is the major problem. He can't shoot, doesn't finish at the rim, and doesn't distribute well. Not being a great scorer isn't all that important at PG if you distribute well, but when you can't do any of that well, we're basically one man short. Throw in Walker who doesn't have offensive polish, and Finney-Smith who is inconsistent, and we just can't score.

 

[MJWilliamson]

Originally posted by oozie7:

. To me, Hill is the major problem. He can't shoot, doesn't finish at the rim, and doesn't distribute well. Not being a great scorer isn't all that important at PG if you distribute well, but when you can't do any of that well, we're basically one man short. Throw in Walker who doesn't have offensive polish, and Finney-Smith who is inconsistent, and we just can't score.

To your very good point, Chiozza was in the game late last night. Not Hill. Billy had seen enough from Hill last night and benched him.

What is maddening that that in some games, Hill has insane assist numbers and very low turnovers. But in others, it is like he forgets what his job is.

As far as losing close games, Billy's teams are able to get into close games against good to great opponents. This year being the exception. Numbers is right is that this year, there is a disturbing pattern of getting teams down, letting them come back and losing in the end. As much as we want blowouts, if this team insists on doing that, then they need to find ways to win, like they did last night.

As a reminder, last year we were 6-1 in games decided by 5 point or less.

 

[SwampMaster]

The game is still moving too fast for Walker. He loses his ish every time he touches the ball. I thought he played his best game last night though. Frazier has zero confidence right now. He doesn't want to pull the trigger. He played pretty well the other night, but you can tell it's effecting his entire game.

They have no identity on offense. Teams are able to clamp down on defense and we have no options. I think this is why they are losing so many games in the last 5 minutes. They truly have a long way to go. Could be NIT bound.