You don't understand, beating out Grambling for recruits is big time! We got a steal.
So, ummm that new staff recruiting bump that always happens...
- Thread starter BringBackBonner
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You don't understand, beating out Grambling for recruits is big time! We got a steal.
Well as long as he says so it must be true. The guy who actually starts on that team must be a 10-star then.
There's a little more to it than that. Blue Shirts are basically "Borrowed" from next year's recruiting class. They cannot take official visits to the team that will "Blue shirt" at and that team's HC cannot make an in-home visit with them.
They are brought in as a preferred "Walk-on", but MUST be counted the following year and cannot arrive until August. They also do NOT sign a LOI until August and you can lose a Blue shirt if someone else decides to offer him a scholarship prior to August and they accept.
Grey shirts are usually lower rated guys who are from the home town as the team or are "Legacies"whose father, brother, uncle etc were former players and the kid grew up wanting to follow in the family footsteps at the same University. They agree to play for the team, but don't show up for another year due to tight scholarship numbers and the desire of the HC to offer "Their" scholarship that season to someone either higher rated or a player for a more pressing immediate need..
The Punter for Denver was a UT Punting Legacy who was Grey Shirted. Team had veteran punter so that way, taking off a year, he still had 5 to play 4 where the Blue Shirt wastes his Red Shirt as a "Walk-on" but unlike the "Grey Shirt" the Blue Shirt can work out with the team, go through the S&C program, attend class, yada, yada, yada.
But you can lose a Grey shirt at any point if he decides to go elsewhere during that year off. UT has a former Nebraska DE Greyshirt who sat out a year and decided that the turmoil at Nebraska might lead to a coaching change(it did) and he accepted an offer to play at UT
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More of those low rated/lightly recruited early commitments will be "encouraged" to move on......
Also Coach Mac said we will sign 28-30 so the reports by some that 28 was a hard cap for us were obviously wrong.
All that does not change the 28 scholarship limit. You said that number is higher than 28.
And as grey shirts and blue shirts go, I think we can take on a billion walk-ons, if we can get them to come here. Taking on walk-ons is not unusual. It is not creative. It is pretty normal at most any program.
And unless I am mistaken, any program can take on any number of scholarship EEs. Up to the number of available scholarships available. So, if this is correct, we could have signed 28 EEs.
I saw that. Yet I have not yet heard or read a detailed explanation of why it is wrong. It does not sound like McE thinks it is necessarily wrong either, since he threw out both numbers.
LOL. No you can't. You can't take an unlimited number of EEs. Where did you get that from? There's rules against how many EE's you can take. It has to do with how many kids you signed the previous year.
To me, the fact that he even said a higher number is possible indicates that 28 is not the limit. I'm certain he has been told by the folks who matter at UF what the absolute limit is. I trust that a lot more than some dude on a message board who calculated what he thinks the max is.
Also the sheer number of top prospects UF is recruiting.....and I count well over a dozen....indicates to me that some more of those lower rated early commits are likely to be pushed out of the class.
We will see. I have not seen any theories why a number higher than 28 is possible.
I hope so, but does nothing to dispute the 28 point limit
I did not say unlimited. I said that I *think* a school can take as many as ship they have available,.
So we only signed 14 last year?
Numbers, numbers, numbers.... Marsha, Marsha, Marsha....
I think that you guys all might need a Snickers bar...
I think that you guys all might need a Snickers bar...
I am going to take a look at this. I have heard various things from various people. It deserves clarification.
The qualifier "or" is the issue.
I stand by the assertion that we only have 28 ships to give. Because the people that know more about it than I do have analyzed the matter have consistently referenced that number. I have not heard or read a detailed analysis that says otherwise. I have heard where people claim more, but those people reference something they read on another message board, or reference McE's statement, without acknowledge he said 28 "or" 30. That does not mean 28 is the right number. It just means that the people that have examined the issue carefully claim that is the number. They could have missed something
BTW, this does not count walk-ons, regardless of how they are described, grey shirt, blue shirt or otherwise.
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Now, on the issue of early enrollees. I ask a few knowledgeable people about the matter. They confirm what I thought was true.
A school is limited by only by the addition of the number under the max from last year, plus the max for the current year. For example, if a progam had undersigned 6 from last year and can sign 25 this year, the EE limit is 31.
So, the fact that we have signed 11 EEs this year DOES NOT mean we undersigned by at least 11 last year. If our combined scholarship limit this year is 28, then we could have signed 28 EEs.
In fact, if we DID undersign by 11 last year, then that implies we could have signed up to 36 this year, assuming we don't go over the 85 overall limit.
A school is limited by only by the addition of the number under the max from last year, plus the max for the current year. For example, if a progam had undersigned 6 from last year and can sign 25 this year, the EE limit is 31.
So, the fact that we have signed 11 EEs this year DOES NOT mean we undersigned by at least 11 last year. If our combined scholarship limit this year is 28, then we could have signed 28 EEs.
In fact, if we DID undersign by 11 last year, then that implies we could have signed up to 36 this year, assuming we don't go over the 85 overall limit.
I stand by the assertion that we have more than 28 to give because Coach Mac said we might take that many and he would know far better than some random dude on the internet.
It is not "some random dude". I referenced the info from a well regarded reporter, which I linked on this board...twice. Plus I discussed it with another guy that knows NCAA recruiting rules better than most. He is an old fart like me and used to work in compliance at another program. They both believe e the number is 28.
And it is good you used the qualifier *might* "take than many" rather than *will* "take that many.
OK how about this....I stand by the assertion that we can take more than 30 because that is what Coach Mac said and I trust that he is well aware of the actual number from people in our athletic department whose job it is to ensure we comply with all NCAA rules/regulations. I trust this calculation a lot more than I trust the speculation of a "well regarded reporter" on the internet.
The might take part was because we don't know how many of the guys we are pursuing and which ones will pull the trigger for us. So it will depend upon that. If we get as many of them as we want, I'm sure we'll take the 30 that Coach Mac referenced and I'm sure that some of the low rated early commits will be pushed out.
I don't care enough to dive into the details but how does Mac saying 28-30 mean we can take more than 30? He just gave a ballpark figure, that doesn't mean that is how much we can or will take. And if some of the lower rates guys get pushed out then we won't be at 30.
That part I dunno about. We're very hard after about 20 prospects. If we got say, 8 of those then that would be 33....obviously we can't take that many...so we'd take the max AND push more lower rated guys out. If we can't get nearly that many then clearly that changes things wrt the overall number. I'd suspect some of the current commits are going to get pushed out regardless though.
He said more than 30?
I thought he said "28 or 30" Let me go back and look
Pushing current commits out reduces our number?
I hope you are right buddy. But I do not think you are.
This is the quote you guys are placing all your faith on.
"We've got a bunch of new guys coming in here at the break,” McElwain said of three junior college players who have already signed and eight true freshmen who will be enrolling in classes for the spring semester, which begins Tuesday. “We'll add a total of 28 to maybe 30 coming in this (recruiting) class."
A total of 28 to...wait for it....maybe 30.
That is not more than thirty. That is maybe thirty. And the maybe part may be due to walk ons.
Thin gruel.
"We've got a bunch of new guys coming in here at the break,” McElwain said of three junior college players who have already signed and eight true freshmen who will be enrolling in classes for the spring semester, which begins Tuesday. “We'll add a total of 28 to maybe 30 coming in this (recruiting) class."
A total of 28 to...wait for it....maybe 30.
That is not more than thirty. That is maybe thirty. And the maybe part may be due to walk ons.
Thin gruel.
He said 28-30....ie he indicated more than 28 was distinctly possible.
If we get more than 3 of the guys we are pursuing then that already would push us past 28 if we got more than 5 that would push us past 30. I think we've got a pretty good chance of landing more than 5 more players....so whether the 28 number is correct or the 30 number is correct, I think its a certainty more of those lower rated/lightly recruited players we took commitments from early on are gonna get pushed out.
28 TO 30....as in up to 30...as in more than 28.
I don't think he meant walk ons. There's no limit to how many of those a school can take.
Fair enough. The words "maybe" and "distinctly possible" might mean the same for you. They do not to me. But that is fine. We can disagree.
I want to see it in numbers. I want to see how. Count the number of guys we signed last year. Consider the transfers. Count the one academic casualty. Make sure we know how many places last year counted toward 2014. All those pluses and minuses seem to add to 28.
I shared an article that did all of that and showed why the number is probably 28. But I acknowledge somebody might have a different analysis that comes up to a different number. I just have not seen it. Have you?
Like I said, I hope you are right. But I think we will have to turn our back on some early commits to get more then three more guys. We have already done that with some other recruits that decommitted, so it is certainly possible.
That is a point I have tried to make, on several occasions. It has fallen on deaf ears, or perhaps better said, blind eyes.
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Yes, and no, and yes.
Mid year enrollees can count forwards or backwards. So 25 - last year's recruiting class is how many you can sign at mid year AND COUNT BACKWARDS TO THE PRIOR CLASS. You can have as many more EE"s as you like that you count forward, up to the 25 limit for the current year.
The "maybe 30" might imply that he expects some transfers or draft exists we aren't aware of right now.
If I tried to tell a judge the basis for my opinion was "a highly regarded lawyer we both know" he'd laugh at me. Then I'd get sued by my client for being a buffon.
Yet you lazy bastards keep using as your authority what some unknown poster on a message board when you're on the internet and can research the answer.
And you wonder why message boards are full of misinformation?
Here are the 2015 NCAA rules that are FREE in a PDF.
Yet you lazy bastards keep using as your authority what some unknown poster on a message board when you're on the internet and can research the answer.
And you wonder why message boards are full of misinformation?
Here are the 2015 NCAA rules that are FREE in a PDF.
They won't be back for the 2016 season:
13 Seniors:
DT/DE Jonathan Bullard - Sr
CB/Nic Brian Poole - Sr
MLB Antonio Morrison - Sr
LB LeAndre Rembert - Sr
LB/ST Anthony Harrell - rsSr
DL Dakota Wilson - rsSr
K Dallas Stubbs - Sr
---------------------------------
OT/OG/C Trip Thurman - rsSr
RT Mason Halter - rsSr
TE Jake McGee - rs-rsSr
WR Evan Schroeder - rsSr
WR Roger Dixon - Sr
TE Bair Diamond - Sr
3 NFL Early Departure Jr's:
RB Kelvin Taylor - Jr
CB Vernon Hargreaves III - Jr
DE Alex McCalister - rsJr (dismissed from team)
------- With 3 more that are still looking -------
WR Demarcus Robinson - Jr
SS Marcus Maye - rsJr
FS Keanu Neal - Jr
1/3 Transfers and/or departures:
QB Will Grier - rsFr (xfer for sure)
RB Jordan Scarlett - Fr -- ??? (rumors of maybe a xfer)
K Austin Hardenr - rsJr ??? - maybe
(imo, he's the least effective ship/kicker in the last 30 years)
=================
So, 17 are gone for sure (maybe 5 more), by Aug. it's likely to be a few more for one reason or another.
13 Seniors:
DT/DE Jonathan Bullard - Sr
CB/Nic Brian Poole - Sr
MLB Antonio Morrison - Sr
LB LeAndre Rembert - Sr
LB/ST Anthony Harrell - rsSr
DL Dakota Wilson - rsSr
K Dallas Stubbs - Sr
---------------------------------
OT/OG/C Trip Thurman - rsSr
RT Mason Halter - rsSr
TE Jake McGee - rs-rsSr
WR Evan Schroeder - rsSr
WR Roger Dixon - Sr
TE Bair Diamond - Sr
3 NFL Early Departure Jr's:
RB Kelvin Taylor - Jr
CB Vernon Hargreaves III - Jr
DE Alex McCalister - rsJr (dismissed from team)
------- With 3 more that are still looking -------
WR Demarcus Robinson - Jr
SS Marcus Maye - rsJr
FS Keanu Neal - Jr
1/3 Transfers and/or departures:
QB Will Grier - rsFr (xfer for sure)
RB Jordan Scarlett - Fr -- ??? (rumors of maybe a xfer)
K Austin Hardenr - rsJr ??? - maybe
(imo, he's the least effective ship/kicker in the last 30 years)
=================
So, 17 are gone for sure (maybe 5 more), by Aug. it's likely to be a few more for one reason or another.
Transfer will count against whatever limit we have. Processing players currently on scholarship will not help with the single year limit, just the 85 man limit.
If 28 IS the right number, the only way we can take more is to get some guys to walk on.
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