How in the world do you show up with almost zero energy when you are fighting for your tournament lives? Gators look like they would rather be somewhere else. That is all on the coach IMHO.....I think we will be looking for a new coach in a couple of years.....maybe I'm wrong but this is bad.
Looks like we have a coaching issue
- Thread starter Countygator
- Start date
It's just year 1 for him and I typically don't judge a coach just off 1 year but yeah it's looking pretty bad right now.
People actually thought Mike White did as good of a coaching job as McElwain? Not even close.
Like I've said time and time again. We will never be any good with Chiozza and/or Hill as our PGs. The PG play is so bad that BFR is getting time at the point. That is how bad our PG play is.
To be fair to Mike White he was handed this roster and this is the worst PG play I have ever seen at UF in a long long time.
People actually thought Mike White did as good of a coaching job as McElwain? Not even close.
Like I've said time and time again. We will never be any good with Chiozza and/or Hill as our PGs. The PG play is so bad that BFR is getting time at the point. That is how bad our PG play is.
To be fair to Mike White he was handed this roster and this is the worst PG play I have ever seen at UF in a long long time.
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My concern is that we show up and play with no energy. We keep getting down big double digits in the first half and are forced to try and fight back. We were just going thru the motions in the first half. Here is the second concern, defensively we are getting worse. Suddenly we stink. Everybody is hanging big numbers on us. Again, that is a reflection of coaching. There are some very bad signs as it relates to Mike White right now.
Pretty laughable that folks are blaming White in one breath, and then blaming the points guards in another.
White has made some questionable coaching decisions over the course of the year. But overall his guys play hard for him, last night not with standing. My concern is that the team defense has regressed badly in the last few games. Too often the team gets down big, makes a valiant effort to come back but falls short. Hey guys, why not stop getting down big?
Chiozza had a very good game. He dished out seven assists and only had 3 turnovers. Hill had 3 assists but had five turnovers.
When our main outside shooter goes 0-4 from 3 point land and 2-6 overall, that is not a good sign.
White has made some questionable coaching decisions over the course of the year. But overall his guys play hard for him, last night not with standing. My concern is that the team defense has regressed badly in the last few games. Too often the team gets down big, makes a valiant effort to come back but falls short. Hey guys, why not stop getting down big?
Chiozza had a very good game. He dished out seven assists and only had 3 turnovers. Hill had 3 assists but had five turnovers.
When our main outside shooter goes 0-4 from 3 point land and 2-6 overall, that is not a good sign.
It looks a lot more like a 'Player Issue' to me. White & staff can tell them what they need to do, but IF they chose not to do it, then that's on them imoho.
2015 Recruit Class: Was started by BillyD, re-recruited and finished by M.White.
SG/PG KeVaughn Allen 6-3 180 **** (he re-recruited and kept the only G in Billy's class)
PF/C Kevarrius Hayes 6-8 190 ***
SF Keith Stone 6-7 215 ****
A PF that did not fit in, dropped out and went elsewhere.
------------
SF Justin Leon 6-8 205 *** Jr (an under-rated Mike White JuCo xfer)
IMO, Leon has greatly out-played SF DeVon Walker 6-6 203 rsJr
==========
2016 Recruit Class:
PG Eric Hester 6-3 175 ****
SF Dontay Bassett 6-8 205 ***
PG/WR Tyrie Cleveland 6-3 180 **** (a projected 2 sport star)
2017 Recruit Class:
PG Shai Alexander 6-4 165 - He is already considered a Top 100 Recruit.
One of the top performers during Sunday's 43rd annual City Of Palms Classic was 2017 Florida verbal commit Shai Alexander. Alexander had 14 points, 8 assists, 4 rebounds, 2 steals, one block and ZERO turnovers in 36 minutes of playing time. He was 6-of-15 from the floor and connected on 2-of-4 three-pointers. He sees the floor well and makes excellent passes through traffic into the post. He clearly knows how his bigs like to receive the ball. He seemed to always have his head up, surveying the court. Something that young point guards often struggle with. When the Canada native committed to the Gators in November, it caught many by surprise. "My relationship with Coach White right off the bat," Alexander said about his decision to commit early. "He's a real guy and that's what I want in a coach. He (coach White) seems very committed."
Looks to me like coach White is attempting to address the PG issues and his guys are all 6-3 or better.
As to BFR - SG/PG Brandone Francis-Ramirez 6-5 205 rsFr ****
27 GP, 2 GS, 11.5 min/gm. He started really slow this season, but he has picked up as of late. He made three 3 pointers in the Gator's monster upset of then #9 WVa.
For the season he has 15 Ast, 10 T-O's, but also 10 Stl's with 29 Rb's.
Note: BillyD won 13 games his first year. He only won 15 games in his 2nd year.
Last year, Billy finished at 16-17, with another losing record.
Mike White has 17 wins already, and while that's not good enough, IT IS good enough for his 1st season. Of course, other opinions might differ....
2015 Recruit Class: Was started by BillyD, re-recruited and finished by M.White.
SG/PG KeVaughn Allen 6-3 180 **** (he re-recruited and kept the only G in Billy's class)
PF/C Kevarrius Hayes 6-8 190 ***
SF Keith Stone 6-7 215 ****
A PF that did not fit in, dropped out and went elsewhere.
------------
SF Justin Leon 6-8 205 *** Jr (an under-rated Mike White JuCo xfer)
IMO, Leon has greatly out-played SF DeVon Walker 6-6 203 rsJr
==========
2016 Recruit Class:
PG Eric Hester 6-3 175 ****
SF Dontay Bassett 6-8 205 ***
PG/WR Tyrie Cleveland 6-3 180 **** (a projected 2 sport star)
2017 Recruit Class:
PG Shai Alexander 6-4 165 - He is already considered a Top 100 Recruit.
One of the top performers during Sunday's 43rd annual City Of Palms Classic was 2017 Florida verbal commit Shai Alexander. Alexander had 14 points, 8 assists, 4 rebounds, 2 steals, one block and ZERO turnovers in 36 minutes of playing time. He was 6-of-15 from the floor and connected on 2-of-4 three-pointers. He sees the floor well and makes excellent passes through traffic into the post. He clearly knows how his bigs like to receive the ball. He seemed to always have his head up, surveying the court. Something that young point guards often struggle with. When the Canada native committed to the Gators in November, it caught many by surprise. "My relationship with Coach White right off the bat," Alexander said about his decision to commit early. "He's a real guy and that's what I want in a coach. He (coach White) seems very committed."
Looks to me like coach White is attempting to address the PG issues and his guys are all 6-3 or better.
As to BFR - SG/PG Brandone Francis-Ramirez 6-5 205 rsFr ****
27 GP, 2 GS, 11.5 min/gm. He started really slow this season, but he has picked up as of late. He made three 3 pointers in the Gator's monster upset of then #9 WVa.
For the season he has 15 Ast, 10 T-O's, but also 10 Stl's with 29 Rb's.
Note: BillyD won 13 games his first year. He only won 15 games in his 2nd year.
Last year, Billy finished at 16-17, with another losing record.
Mike White has 17 wins already, and while that's not good enough, IT IS good enough for his 1st season. Of course, other opinions might differ....
"Another example of Foley trying to outsmart everyone with his hires."
I thought the consensus at the time was that White to be an exceptional hire. He was on almost everyone's young coach on the rise list, and would have likely been hired by a decent basketball school sooner rather than later.
If I'm not mistaken you have a certain amount of disdain for Foley, but maybe you truly feel this hire was a reach. idk
I thought the consensus at the time was that White to be an exceptional hire. He was on almost everyone's young coach on the rise list, and would have likely been hired by a decent basketball school sooner rather than later.
If I'm not mistaken you have a certain amount of disdain for Foley, but maybe you truly feel this hire was a reach. idk
The only concerning thing to me about White is that we always seem overmatched early in games and his defense is starting to get picked apart after starting very strong. It seems like other coaches have adjusted to him and he hasn't had an answer so far. It will all come down to recruiting of course. Is give him about a B so far. He'll have to do better than that. Id be very surprised if Tyrie Cleveland plays any meaningful minutes for Gator hoops.
I agree that Foley seems much less likely to hire an experienced guy. He likes the hot young prospects. Which when they hit you look like a genius, but they're higher risk. For instance, he probably wouldn't hire someone like Jim Larranaga, who is clearly the best college hoops coach in Florida right now.
The players White inherited went 16-17, 8-10 in the SEC with Michael Frazier, Jon Horford, Chris Walker and Eli Walker on the team. Most experts picked us to make the NCAA tournament this year based on the returning players, plus the additions of Alex Murphy, Egbunu and Allen. Murphy hasn't been able to contribute, the point guards have been bad, overall team shooting has been horrible and the defense has gotten worse as the season has progressed. I believe they underachieved, but maybe more was expected of them that should have been. I've said this before, but whether or not White makes it will depend on recruiting and the addition of only two 3 stars for next year combined with the loss of Finney-Smith makes me think next year will be more of the same with maybe a little more drop off. If he can't get better players to come into the program he won't last. I'm a big Gator basketball fan and was very enthusiastic early on, but I've quit watching the games and am now focused on baseball & softball.
Donovan went 27-32 in his first two years. By year 2, he was recruiting like a demon, and the Gators were off and running. He beat everybody for Mike Miller and went to the sweet 16 in year 3 and then brought in Brett Nelson and Donnell Harvey, who were big time recruits, and went to the finals in year 4.
As far as the expectations this year. He has some great athletes, but he has nobody who can make a shot consistently. He's got nobody to score consistently in the post, nobody who can get their own shot and make it consistently, nobody who can hit a three consistently, and nobody who is capable of getting free throws that can consistently hit them, particularly late in games.
Allen, D-Rob and Egbunu are his best players moving forward, all Billy D holdovers. He's got to go out and get his own players.
As far as the expectations this year. He has some great athletes, but he has nobody who can make a shot consistently. He's got nobody to score consistently in the post, nobody who can get their own shot and make it consistently, nobody who can hit a three consistently, and nobody who is capable of getting free throws that can consistently hit them, particularly late in games.
Allen, D-Rob and Egbunu are his best players moving forward, all Billy D holdovers. He's got to go out and get his own players.
Reading this thread, it's like people think we are a basketball school or something.
We were blessed and spoiled for the prior 20 years with a once in a lifetime phenom.
We are what we are in hoops now without him, and sadgator is at total peace with it.
Enjoy each game for what it is. Don't get worked up about program long-term success. It'll never be what we just had ever again and it isn't worth worrying about.
We were blessed and spoiled for the prior 20 years with a once in a lifetime phenom.
We are what we are in hoops now without him, and sadgator is at total peace with it.
Enjoy each game for what it is. Don't get worked up about program long-term success. It'll never be what we just had ever again and it isn't worth worrying about.
It's a Gator sports message board. What is the point of its existence except to inconsequentially discuss the state of its various sports teams? We're paying Mike White $2m a year, and we're spending $50m to update the O'Dome. Why are we doing all that if UF hoops moving forward is just going to be a campfire singalong, regardless of our record? You don't think for $2m a year, all the resources at UF, and all the athletes in Florida, we can't have a coach that consistently gets the Gators in the tournament?
Yeah, next year's guys are a bit underwhelming but I'm willing to give him a pass on that since he got a late start on them. Hester might be quite good, too.
I'm encouraged by Shai Alexander because 1) White got him to commit while he was still a bit under the radar and 2) he looks awesome.
It's similar to the Mac situation - we just need to wait and see.
Gloooommmm, Dis-Pairrr, Pain and Ag-Go-Knee..... 
After Billy left, he took a trip to tennis-sea and was offered a ship.
SG/PG KeVaughn Allen 6-3 180 **** (MW re-recruited and kept the only G in Billy's class)
2016 Recruit Class:
PG Eric Hester 6-3 175 **** (a 4 star, not a 3 star)
2017 Recruit Class:
PG Shai Alexander 6-4 165 - He is already considered a Top 100 Recruit.
A little patience, balance, and perspective might be in order?
After Billy left, he took a trip to tennis-sea and was offered a ship.
SG/PG KeVaughn Allen 6-3 180 **** (MW re-recruited and kept the only G in Billy's class)
2016 Recruit Class:
PG Eric Hester 6-3 175 **** (a 4 star, not a 3 star)
2017 Recruit Class:
PG Shai Alexander 6-4 165 - He is already considered a Top 100 Recruit.
A little patience, balance, and perspective might be in order?
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I agree we need some patience, but I am not ready to accept a mediocre basketball program as the status quo. I expect ALL of our programs to compete for championships. That's what a school that always finishes in the Top 10 of the Director's Cup standings should expect. It does seem that the 4 & 5 star kids Billy D got who are still with the program have just not proven to be as good as advertised. Chiozza was a solid 4 star on all 4 rating services, Francis- Ramirez was a 4 star on 3 services and a 5 star on another, while Devin Robinson was a 5 star on 2 services and 4 star on the other 2. Kasey Hill was a consensus 5 star. So either the coaches haven't developed them or they were overrated. With basketball it only takes a couple of key recruits to turn a program around and I agree that Mike White needs to be given some breathing room. But the expectations are and should be that we consistently make the NCAA tournament and compete for the SEC title on a regular basis. If he's not doing that by year 3, 4 at the latest, then a change would be in order. At least that's my opinion.
Florida is to Hoops as Ole' Miss is to football.
We will rise up every now and again, but we'll never challenge for conference or national superiority unless there is some miraculous second coming of a coach.
And truth be told, we aren't really that great of a place for hoops. Despite the renovation and resources, we are a lackluster fan base for hoops. The O Dome never fills up, we don't travel well, and even the students seem a bit apathetic these days. We'll never be a Kentucky or UNC, yet that is the expectation standard being set.
sadgator lived and saw the mountaintop. He will die satisfied with what he saw from gator hoops under Billy. It's all good.
We will rise up every now and again, but we'll never challenge for conference or national superiority unless there is some miraculous second coming of a coach.
And truth be told, we aren't really that great of a place for hoops. Despite the renovation and resources, we are a lackluster fan base for hoops. The O Dome never fills up, we don't travel well, and even the students seem a bit apathetic these days. We'll never be a Kentucky or UNC, yet that is the expectation standard being set.
sadgator lived and saw the mountaintop. He will die satisfied with what he saw from gator hoops under Billy. It's all good.
It is fine for you to have a defeatist attitude regarding basketball. But it is a bit silly to try and convince others.
We need Shai Alexander for next year. He's a big time PG prospect that we need the sooner the better.
and we lost that game in 99 to Gonzaga in the same way we always talk about, miracles. It's been happening so long it's hard to know where it started. I remember laughing at them winning with that tip in in phoenix. Then it reversed the next year for once with Mike Miller making that runner to beat Butler and then we went all the way to the Final Four and NC game. That team had so many guys that could score and good players overall. We were young too and screwed up after that the next few years in the tournament... Now im reminded yet again of the miracle shooting from other teams, in 2002 we lost to one person from Creighton that hit 700 threes including the one to win at the buzzer too.
Again, the losing I can tolerate, but the fact we are fighting for our tournament lives and we play the first 20 minutes like it's a pick up game at the park, that is troublesome. We keep digging these deep holes. Even the announcer said it looked like we didn't have much interest....wow.
Forget the missed free throws tonight, Kentucky missed a bunch too, but again our defense has completely disappeared. Not sure what has changed, but something has. We can't win games in the upper 70's to 80's.
Yep.
Someone ask earlier why is White not getting the same heat as McE got?
Well, now he should. His team did a face plant the last four games. And he cannot even use the excuse of losing a critical player.
Mike White is not doing a good job at all right now. The team has regressed and there is no excuse for it. I really don't blame the bad shooting or the poor FT shooting on White but I do blame White for the total lack of defensive effort or a defensive game plan over the last several weeks and the fact the team looks disinterested to start every single game.
So far in just their first year McElwain did a much much better job than White. Not even close.
I'm still scratching my head as to why we didn't make a play for Tony Bennett or Archie Miller or some other coaches before we approached Mike White.
So far in just their first year McElwain did a much much better job than White. Not even close.
I'm still scratching my head as to why we didn't make a play for Tony Bennett or Archie Miller or some other coaches before we approached Mike White.
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I thought so too. From what I understand. Pelphrey never considered the possibility of staying if not the HC job.
They are not only the most embarrassing offensive team in the nation they are now just as bad on defense. That's 3 games in a row with 80 plus points for the first time since 08. They are the same exact bad romantic comedy every single game and somehow get worse. I made it about 5 minutes before I turned it off this time, there's just absolutely nothing to see that hasn't already been shown. They will lose to Mizzou too, they are like a soap opera. You can understand the whole season just watching one episode. These players aren't going anywhere, they just aren't any damn good.
I don't think we're disinterested at the beginning of games, we just don't make shots. Every game were like 5-19 in the first 8 or 10 minutes. Our defense is just getting shredded. We help to stop drives and give up wide open 3s to good shooters. How can you let Murray just stand there and shoot all game again?
Maybe free throws weren't the difference, but late in the game we were down 10 and we had missed 17 free throws. It's bizarre what bad shooters we are.
I don't put all the blame on White, although he definitely looks like he's in deep water right now. But I agree that we should have chased some more established guys harder. I would have made Archie Miller say no.
Maybe free throws weren't the difference, but late in the game we were down 10 and we had missed 17 free throws. It's bizarre what bad shooters we are.
I don't put all the blame on White, although he definitely looks like he's in deep water right now. But I agree that we should have chased some more established guys harder. I would have made Archie Miller say no.
Donovan inherited a much weaker roster and a much weaker program in general that hadn't accomplished much than what White inherited. Because of Donovan, Mike White has more to sell due to past history success.
In Donovan's 3rd year UF made the Sweet Sixteen and in his 4th year we made it to the National Championship Game.
I agree that White inherited a much better group of players than Donovan did. Right now, though, I've lost interest in the basketball team. It's so painful to watch and next year it's going to be more of the same except no DFS. I haven't watched the last 3 games and won't watch them again this year.
Billy Donovan beat everybody for Mike Miller, Brett Nelson and Donnell Harvey. He didn't beat Arkansas and Ole Miss for them. He beat Indiana, UCLA, Duke, North Carolina. To Sadgator's point, he was probably one of a kind in that respect.
Kevaughn Allen is a very good recruit. But you see the difference between him and someone like Jamal Murray, who everybody wanted.
I think we do have a decent foundation next year: Egbunu, D-rob and Allen and two pgs that are at least experienced and can defend and pass a little bit. But we need some guys that can score/shoot to plug in around them.
Kevaughn Allen is a very good recruit. But you see the difference between him and someone like Jamal Murray, who everybody wanted.
I think we do have a decent foundation next year: Egbunu, D-rob and Allen and two pgs that are at least experienced and can defend and pass a little bit. But we need some guys that can score/shoot to plug in around them.
