IF Grier was still QB

[gatorshime]

Would we be 8-1? Would Candy have been so close? Would we have a better or worse chance to win the SEC?


IMO We would be a much better team and have a chance at the SECCG. Still think LSU would've been a loss.

 

[UF_GATOR_FAN]

He's almost certainly a better passer than Harris, but people are in a rush to romanticize Grier's time as QB. He left plenty of plays on the field as well, and had a lot to work on. The future is bright at QB though, Coach Mac seems to be excellent at developing QBs. And after last year's disaster, I'm thrilled with anything illustrating offensive competence.

 

[Michi-Gator]

He's almost certainly a better passer than Harris, but people are in a rush to romanticize Grier's time as QB. He left plenty of plays on the field as well, and had a lot to work on. The future is bright at QB though, Coach Mac seems to be excellent at developing QBs. And after last year's disaster, I'm thrilled with anything illustrating offensive competence.

This

 

[oozie7]

He's almost certainly a better passer than Harris, but people are in a rush to romanticize Grier's time as QB. He left plenty of plays on the field as well, and had a lot to work on. The future is bright at QB though, Coach Mac seems to be excellent at developing QBs. And after last year's disaster, I'm thrilled with anything illustrating offensive competence.

Pretty much my take. I feel we'd have a better chance in the SEC Title game though just because I don't think we can run on either of those teams and he's obviously the better passer. To your point though people romanticize Grier's starts something serious. He broke out against Ole Miss but he also had some pretty horrid games against ECU, UK, and Mizzou. And for three quarters against UT he was also pretty bad. But to have people tell it we were the 99 Rams when he was starting.

 

[NavigatorII]

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. We got what we got. We're starting to sound like nole fans whining. Hopefully Grier will be back for all of 2016. I'm not sure we beat LSU with him, Harris played a great until the last series of it. Need to recruit a top tiered QB this year as well. Pretty thin here.

 

[cwesleyf]

Give most of the credit to McElwain. He has the skill to produce chicken salad with something other than chicken. Some guys when deprived of a fork learn to make due with chop sticks. That's Mac. This gator team will be awesome once he has a full complement of offensive tools to work with.

 

[invisiblegator]

Treon had some bad plays today but he seemed much more accurate with short throws. All we need to do is keep winning.

 

[gatorshime]

Quaccckkkkkkkk Quaccckkkkkkkk Quaccckkkkkkkk on some of those throws today including the missed int. which became a TD. Have to be better vs the little Nolies and the SEC West Champion.

 

[sadgator]

Harris seems to have a total lack of internal clock in his head regarding the rush. He also doesn't feel it and doesn't take huge running lanes when he sometimes has the opportunity if he was decisive. There were tons of them today. That said, he managed the game effectively and our AWESOME receiving corps really bailed him out today. A win is a win.

 

[Michi-Gator]

Give most of the credit to McElwain. He has the skill to produce chicken salad with something other than chicken. Some guys when deprived of a fork learn to make due with chop sticks. That's Mac. This gator team will be awesome once he has a full complement of offensive tools to work with.

And in doing so he has sped up the turnaround because we have the attention of elite prospects.

We could always make excuses like the "injuries" of 2013.

 

[GatorNation79]

He's almost certainly a better passer than Harris, but people are in a rush to romanticize Grier's time as QB. He left plenty of plays on the field as well, and had a lot to work on. The future is bright at QB though, Coach Mac seems to be excellent at developing QBs. And after last year's disaster, I'm thrilled with anything illustrating offensive competence.

We are a better offense TODAY if Grier is taking snaps...yeah he has room to grow but the "QB Competition" wasn't a competition...it's not even close and I like Treon but it is what it is. IMO it was 'close' but it was also a good way for Mac to bring along the guy who got the job but it was Grier the whole time. Grier is more accurate, he gets the ball out way faster, has the arm, can make the throws/reads before the receiver gets open and while height hasn't hurt Treon but it's just another thing in favor for Grier. Treon has done a great job but Grier is way better...our upside as a team and offense is way better with Grier...if you can't see that then you need to open your eyes bro. I'm happy that we have Treon...I don't think that many teams have a back up that can play as well as Treon so I think that we are really lucky to have a guy like Treon who has taken the back seat with such a great attitude...I've been more impressed with who Treon is as a man and how he has handled himself with not getting the starting role then coming in against LSU...I've been very impressed with his character...I think that it's something to be admired..even more than his play on the field which as been good and very good at times. IMO if Grier is taking snaps our play book has more pages in it and it helps relieve some of our limitations as an offense.

 

[Dannygator1989]

Everyone knows Grier is better Michi.

And the injury argument if 2013, your pride and joy, was a legitimate debate about how an unprecedented number of injuries would not only affect the play on the field, but lead to a situation where the team felt that everything they were attempting was futile because of the injuries and futility.

It's a mentality.


But oh wait, Muschamp blah blah blah.

How's your Rich Rod, Mullen, and Malzahn doing?

As much as I want Harbaugh to destroy Meyer's weak little heart, I will have a huge grin on my face if he never succeeds at Michigan.

Lost cause you are.

 

[sadgator]

Everyone knows Grier is better Michi.

And the injury argument if 2013, your pride and joy, was a legitimate debate about how an unprecedented number of injuries would not only affect the play on the field, but lead to a situation where the team felt that everything they were attempting was futile because of the injuries and futility.

It's a mentality.


But oh wait, Muschamp blah blah blah.

How's your Rich Rod, Mullen, and Malzahn doing?

As much as I want Harbaugh to destroy Meyer's weak little heart, I will have a huge grin on my face if he never succeeds at Michigan.

Lost cause you are.

Boo. Horrible post. Still with the injuries. We didn't try. That is why we lost with Mus. Mac trys. That is why he is a winner.

 

[gatorpe55]

If Timmy was still our QB would we be happier? If SOS was our coach would we be better? If only all Parisians walked around with glocks would the death toll be lower? Reality is your friend and the reality is Mac is a fckn genius/magician and we are 9-1, going to Atlanta and giving me GREAT hope for the future of our football program.

 

[Michi-Gator]

Everyone knows Grier is better Michi.

And the injury argument if 2013, your pride and joy, was a legitimate debate about how an unprecedented number of injuries would not only affect the play on the field, but lead to a situation where the team felt that everything they were attempting was futile because of the injuries and futility.

It's a mentality.


But oh wait, Muschamp blah blah blah.

How's your Rich Rod, Mullen, and Malzahn doing?

As much as I want Harbaugh to destroy Meyer's weak little heart, I will have a huge grin on my face if he never succeeds at Michigan.

Lost cause you are.

Its almost like you are bitter we are winning because each and every week it becomes more and more obvious that Muschamp was simply a loser. He is an overrated DC who had no clue what he was doing and made excuses instead of adjustments.

Best thing that has ever happened to UF football is the day Chump and ACL Tear Dillman walked off the campus for good. They can go be loser, neanderthal, meatheads elsewhere.

 

[keyzer soze]

Its almost like you are bitter we are winning because each and every week it becomes more and more obvious that Muschamp was simply a loser. He is an overrated DC who had no clue what he was doing and made excuses instead of adjustments.

Best thing that has ever happened to UF football is the day Chump and ACL Tear Dillman walked off the campus for good. They can go be loser, neanderthal, meatheads elsewhere.

I'm gonna have to go ahead and agree with ALL of this.

 

[GatorNation79]

I'm gonna have to go ahead and agree with ALL of this.

I'm not agreeing with all of this...I don't really think that anyone is even talking about Muschamp in the first place. The rest is all obvious...not sure why Mich keeps bring up WM. Honestly I almost never think about Will Muschamp anymore...it's all about the Coach Mac and what's happening in Gainesville this year...if you're thinking about Will Muschamp the you need to go drink a beer, have sex, work out, go hunting/fishing, smoke a blunt, wack off or do whatever you need to do to relieve some stress...geez...it happened, it's over and we've got some pretty awesome stuff to talk about now with our new coach and team. Go Gators!

 

[PacoGator19]

Its almost like you are bitter we are winning because each and every week it becomes more and more obvious that Muschamp was simply a loser. He is an overrated DC who had no clue what he was doing and made excuses instead of adjustments.

Best thing that has ever happened to UF football is the day Chump and ACL Tear Dillman walked off the campus for good. They can go be loser, neanderthal, meatheads elsewhere.

Just an FYI, but Jeff Dillman was hired by Saban and is currently at Bama. Muschamp was the root of all our problems. He was the cancer to the program. We had some good coaches that had to suffer under Muschamp's leadership or lack thereof.

 

[Weil Hall QB]

The rest is all obvious...not sure why Mich keeps bring up WM.

Is it just me or does anyone else immediately think Waste Management when they see "WM"? If the shoe fits. . .

 

[BayAreaGator]

I think we beat LSU with Grier.

And the fact we're winning despite Treon is a testament to Mac. Treon is a liability which is a shame because there are great opportunities in front of this team with FSU and Bama coming up. The most discouraging thing about Treon is his lack of progress from week to week. Still not correctly recognizing the defense pre-snap. Still slow going through his progressions. Still not stepping up in the pocket. Still not setting his feet. Still floating passes which are already being thrown too late.

Hopefully, Mac can get just enough out of Treon to beat FSU.

 

[Dannygator1989]

Its almost like you are bitter we are winning because each and every week it becomes more and more obvious that Muschamp was simply a loser. He is an overrated DC who had no clue what he was doing and made excuses instead of adjustments.

Best thing that has ever happened to UF football is the day Chump and ACL Tear Dillman walked off the campus for good. They can go be loser, neanderthal, meatheads elsewhere.

You didn't take the bait on that one as much as I would have liked.

Really thought the Rich Rod reference would have sent you over the top.

And please, I give a thousand times less thought to Muschamp than you do.

You're mainly hurt that Treon sucks and you're the only one who likes him.

 

[gatorpe55]

You didn't take the bait on that one as much as I would have liked.

Really thought the Rich Rod reference would have sent you over the top.

And please, I give a thousand times less thought to Muschamp than you do.

You're mainly hurt that Treon sucks and you're the only one who likes him.

so you are saying you dont like our QB, a Fla gator, not a fan or wanna be but the QB of our favorite team. Are you a nole, a dog or worse a bandwagon fan? The guy is playing his asss off and running for his life (did you see Vandy , even mac said he had no chance). In addition he is staying H E A L T H Y thank God because he is all we got. I like all the players on this team...... YOu know why BECAUSE It is a team game and these guys seem to know it better than most of our fans. They play to the final whistle and are making us Damned proud this year........so danny go on disliking some of our players........if it flips your thong. As for me I support all of these guys and the staff. Seriously, I love how this team has improved so much and played so damned hard.

 

[BayAreaGator]

so you are saying you dont like our QB, a Fla gator, not a fan or wanna be but the QB of our favorite team. Are you a nole, a dog or worse a bandwagon fan? The guy is playing his asss off and running for his life (did you see Vandy , even mac said he had no chance). In addition he is staying H E A L T H Y thank God because he is all we got. I like all the players on this team...... YOu know why BECAUSE It is a team game and these guys seem to know it better than most of our fans. They play to the final whistle and are making us Damned proud this year........so danny go on disliking some of our players........if it flips your thong. As for me I support all of these guys and the staff. Seriously, I love how this team has improved so much and played so damned hard.

For the love of Gawd. NO ONE has said they "dislike" Treon. NO ONE has said Treon isn't "playing his ass off."

We are not happy with his production, his play...he isn't playing well. His PLAY. His PLAY. His P-L-A-Y.

 

[GatorGray]

if it flips your thong.

Danny seems more like the commando type.

 

[tbbuc99]

We are a better offense TODAY if Grier is taking snaps...yeah he has room to grow but the "QB Competition" wasn't a competition...it's not even close and I like Treon but it is what it is. IMO it was 'close' but it was also a good way for Mac to bring along the guy who got the job but it was Grier the whole time. Grier is more accurate, he gets the ball out way faster, has the arm, can make the throws/reads before the receiver gets open and while height hasn't hurt Treon but it's just another thing in favor for Grier. Treon has done a great job but Grier is way better...our upside as a team and offense is way better with Grier...if you can't see that then you need to open your eyes bro. I'm happy that we have Treon...I don't think that many teams have a back up that can play as well as Treon so I think that we are really lucky to have a guy like Treon who has taken the back seat with such a great attitude...I've been more impressed with who Treon is as a man and how he has handled himself with not getting the starting role then coming in against LSU...I've been very impressed with his character...I think that it's something to be admired..even more than his play on the field which as been good and very good at times. IMO if Grier is taking snaps our play book has more pages in it and it helps relieve some of our limitations as an offense.

Even if Grier is back start of next season, missing the experience of the second half of this season will hurt a bit. I hope he wins his appeal and can be back game 1 next season.

 

[oozie7]

For the love of Gawd. NO ONE has said they "dislike" Treon. NO ONE has said Treon isn't "playing his ass off."

We are not happy with his production, his play...he isn't playing well. His PLAY. His PLAY. His P-L-A-Y.

He has gotten better though, pay attention to the little things. His pocket presence has improved, he's reading the field from the pocket and hanging tough in there, etc. By my count 14 of his 19 completions were directly from the pocket which everyone complained about him not doing. Timing on routes have also been better. Mac has been extremely candid about both QB's all season has pointed all of that out.

Another thing to consider is three of the four best defenses we've played (to date) have come in the four game stretch Treon has started. #30, #10, and #17. Grier played against Mizzou whose defense is #8 and had no passing TD's in that game. And according to ESPN Treon's QBR which accounts for plays responsible for, strength of opponent defense, etc. is 72.4, Grier's is 66.2. We've also gone over 400 yards in two of his 4 starts, we did that once iirc before then. Now does that mean Treon is better? No, and especially in this offense. Grier is the better fit long term and barring a complete collapse will likely be he future QB. The point is though Treon hasn't been nearly as bad as people claim and Grier was not really as good as people seem to be remembering either. He blew up against Ole Miss, but the other performances were average to below average. People just want to romanticize his starts for some reason.

 

[BayAreaGator]

I boil it down like this:

Nobody likes a low ceiling with their QB and everyone loves the idea of having something special at QB.

Anyone with two working eyes can see the ceiling his high and the potential to be special is there with Grier.

The ceiling is low and there is nothing special about Treon.

It doesn't mean we don't root for him.
It doesn't mean we don't appreciate his effort.
It doesn't mean anything other than exactly what it reads.
I'll get hammered by the Treon crowd regardless.

 

[oozie7]

There is no 'Treon crowd' except for maybe Michi. Some people, like myself, are just pointing out (with factual evidence I might add) that he hasn't been as bad as many people claim nor was Grier as good as many people on here would have you believe. I mean I don't recall anybody wanting Grier benched for his 125 yard, 1 INT performance against lowly UK in his first road start. Or throwing 4 balls in the chest of defenders against ECU that were thankfully dropped and having to be pulled by Mac so Treon could finish the game. Yet Treon goes on the road against LSU in his first road start, throws for 270, and the major theme after that game was how bad he was. Same thing against USCe. Throw for 250 with really only one mistake (a dumb one I admit) and still...he sucks. He has the 2/3 of our highest passing performances of the year and is slowly (frustrating I admit) improving and yet...not good enough. It makes no sense the double standards people apply to both QB's. If anything, there's a 'Grier crowd' who seem to be overly harsh in their criticism of Treon while overlooking all of Grier's flaws or the bad games he had.

Grier is the most talented, Grier has the higher ceiling, Grier fits this offense better, and Grier should be the QB of the future. But we're talking about the here and now. He hasn't blown Treon's performances out of the water, the numbers dot support it, yet that's the vibe people try to portray here. Like oh if Grier was QB we'd be undefeated and a lock for the playoffs! It's insane. Just be fair in your criticism is all.

 

[Michi-Gator]

Treon crowd is a made up "crowd" because anger over Grier's bad judgement hurt the team. No one thinks Treon is doing better than Grier would have. But like oozie said their is some romanticizing of Grier's play and the OL was terrible intil Treon took over and now he can't think quick enough.

Its all about misplaced frustration over Grier's decision. And while I love the chance the gives us to win, Grier and Meyer would have gotten along because their is definately aome entitlement issues there.

 

[BayAreaGator]

I mean I don't recall anybody wanting Grier benched for his 125 yard, 1 INT performance against lowly UK in his first road start. Or throwing 4 balls in the chest of defenders against ECU that were thankfully dropped and having to be pulled by Mac so Treon could finish the game. Yet Treon goes on the road against LSU in his first road start, throws for 270, and the major theme after that game was how bad he was. Same thing against USCe. Throw for 250 with really only one mistake (a dumb one I admit)

You're doing what you are condemning....pointing out Grier's dropped INTs (I'm going to take you at your word that it was 4 although I'm not sure I should since....) and in the same breath you're really going to tell us Treon made 1 mistake against USCe??? Were you on a beer run when Treon threw the ill-advised duck downfield to Vandy that Cronkrite bailed him out of? In retrospect, Cronkrite's bailout of Treon on that play may have saved us the game.

Here's a replay...
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=14127079


Also, as to your recollection that no one wanted Grier benched after UK, here is a post of mine after that game...

http://florida.forums.rivals.com/th...-named-starter-right.19459/page-2#post-347288

 

[BayAreaGator]

Grier and Meyer would have gotten along because their is definately aome entitlement issues there.

As to Grier, go on. Explain.

 

[angel1293]

Treon crowd is a made up "crowd" because anger over Grier's bad judgement hurt the team. No one thinks Treon is doing better than Grier would have. But like oozie said their is some romanticizing of Grier's play and the OL was terrible intil Treon took over and now he can't think quick enough.

Its all about misplaced frustration over Grier's decision. And while I love the chance the gives us to win, Grier and Meyer would have gotten along because their is definately aome entitlement issues there.

I think people miss Grier a lot is because we're all tired of horrible QB play. I never felt Grier was ever great or even good as I saw him play but at least we can all agree he was at least average & what we been missing since 09 is at least average QB play. Grier also helped the O-line a lot more because he could see over them & got rid of the ball way quicker than Treon. I'm rooting for Treon but at the same time I have to be realistic & know that he isn't even an average QB. He's an athlete playing QB.

 

[oozie7]

You're doing what you are condemning....pointing out Grier's dropped INTs (I'm going to take you at your word that it was 4 although I'm not sure I should since....) and in the same breath you're really going to tell us Treon made 1 mistake against USCe??? Were you on a beer run when Treon threw the ill-advised duck downfield to Vandy that Cronkrite bailed him out of? In retrospect, Cronkrite's bailout of Treon on that play may have saved us the game.

Here's a replay...
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=14127079


Also, as to your recollection that no one wanted Grier benched after UK, here is a post of mine after that game...

http://florida.forums.rivals.com/th...-named-starter-right.19459/page-2#post-347288

I honestly did forget that, wasn't a purposeful oversight. I was thinking of the putrid INT on the goaline as my one (passing) mistake. I also mentioned in the game thread that he took two really bad sacks, but I was trying to keep it mainly on the passing game.

And I read back through that thread you posted, fair enough. Although I was generally referring to the consensus on these boards and others. Maybe I shouldn't extrapolate that much but that's what I recall. Lots of stuff like 'it's his first road game we won that's all that matters' or 'he'll no doubt improve the job is his' etc. Almost no one was critical, at least not as much as they have been for Treon or hell even QB's like Driskel.

 

[Michi-Gator]

I honestly did forget that, wasn't a purposeful oversight. I was thinking of the putrid INT on the goaline as my one (passing) mistake. I also mentioned in the game thread that he took two really bad sacks, but I was trying to keep it mainly on the passing game.

And I read back through that thread you posted, fair enough. Although I was generally referring to the consensus on these boards and others. Maybe I shouldn't extrapolate that much but that's what I recall. Lots of stuff like 'it's his first road game we won that's all that matters' or 'he'll no doubt improve the job is his' etc. Almost no one was critical, at least not as much as they have been for Treon or hell even QB's like Driskel.

Resembles.a.Spurrier.QB

 

[GatorGray]

Interesting discussion going on about Grier/Harris right now. Some stats (note some are all starts (5 ea) & some are without the two "shared" games(4 ea)):

Grier Harris

YPG 340.4 401.4 (5 starts ea)

PPG 26.4 29.8 (5 ea)

YPG 332 350 (4)

PPG 25.3 22.0 (4)

Games w>400yds 0 3 (1 is NMSU)

YPP 4.92 5.27 (4)

3rd Dn 20/60=33% 27/64=42% (4)

4th 7/8=87.5% 3/10=30% (4)

RedZ 12/15=80% 9/13=69%

10 TDs(66.7%) 8 TDs (61.5%)

 

[oozie7]

Interesting discussion going on about Grier/Harris right now. Some stats (note some are all starts (5 ea) & some are without the two "shared" games(4 ea)):

Grier Harris

YPG 340.4 401.4 (5 starts ea)

PPG 26.4 29.8 (5 ea)

YPG 332 350 (4)

PPG 25.3 22.0 (4)

Games w>400yds 0 3 (1 is NMSU)

YPP 4.92 5.27 (4)

3rd Dn 20/60=33% 27/64=42% (4)

4th 7/8=87.5% 3/10=30% (4)

RedZ 12/15=80% 9/13=69%

10 TDs(66.7%) 8 TDs (61.5%)

These numbers actually surprise me. I wonder what the justification will be to explain the discrepancy. Certainly can't be the quality of defenses because 3 of the top 4 defenses we've faced this year have come in the last four games.

 

[GatorGray]

These numbers actually surprise me. I wonder what the justification will be to explain the discrepancy. Certainly can't be the quality of defenses because 3 of the top 4 defenses we've faced this year have come in the last four games.

I was quite surprised as well as the "eye test" would make you think that the offense moved better under Grier. That is not the case. Although if you think about it, the one game where Grier looked really good (ole Moss), the offense had short field much of the night.

Also, consider that all of the other players have continued to grow as well as the coaching staff learning what the players are capable of and calling the best plays for them.

 

[Dannygator1989]

so you are saying you dont like our QB, a Fla gator, not a fan or wanna be but the QB of our favorite team. Are you a nole, a dog or worse a bandwagon fan? The guy is playing his asss off and running for his life (did you see Vandy , even mac said he had no chance). In addition he is staying H E A L T H Y thank God because he is all we got. I like all the players on this team...... YOu know why BECAUSE It is a team game and these guys seem to know it better than most of our fans. They play to the final whistle and are making us Damned proud this year........so danny go on disliking some of our players........if it flips your thong. As for me I support all of these guys and the staff. Seriously, I love how this team has improved so much and played so damned hard.

So...two explanations for this post.

1. Your handle denotes the year you were born and your age, combined with a general lack of message board knowledge, explains it.

2. You're about 13-15 years old and idealistic. That's nice though I guess.


Wait, option 3...

3. You're a girl (age unimportant).

 

[PacoGator19]

IMO we would be undefeated with Grier. But oh well.

 

[gatorpe55]

So...two explanations for this post.

1. Your handle denotes the year you were born and your age, combined with a general lack of message board knowledge, explains it.

2. You're about 13-15 years old and idealistic. That's nice though I guess.


Wait, option 3...

3. You're a girl (age unimportant).

Ah Danny I just tire of all the fckn drama about how bad this player is or that coach is. Yeah, it is a sports forum where any idiot can prove their stupidity. You are either a gator fan and amazed and delighted at this team and how well it has improved or you are a moron still complaining about things you do not understand. Now what lack of internet knowledge am I causing you problems with? Is it my intolerence of morons? Or that I could give a fck what idiots think about the only real QB we have left to take us on this ride to Atlanta and beyond. Does 1989 tell us your birth year? If so I give you a pass cause you have no real understanding and perspective about Gator Football.