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COVID 19: Update: Extremely Long and Extremely Thorough (Summation/Cliff Notes at End)

gator1776

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Jan 19, 2011
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Given the events of this week, I thought it might be a good time for a brief update. As always, lets try not to make it political and I invite other doctors, nurses, scientist, epidemiologist, or anyone else to add to this if they have direct knowledge on the topic. Everyone else is, of course, welcome to express their thoughts, view, experiences, opinions or ask questions.

First my credentials for those unfamiliar: I am board certified by the ABIM and ABMS in Internal Medicine, Pulmonary Medicine, Critical Care Medicine, and Hospice and Palliative Care Medicine. I am also board certified in Pediatrics by the American Board of Pediatrics. I work mostly as a Pulmonary and Critical Care doctor and I am or have been the medical director of two different hospitals intensive care units during the entire COVID 19 pandemic. I have personally cared for hundreds of infected coronavirus patients ranging in severity from mild hospital cases to severe ICU cases on life support, many of whom sadly did not survive. I offer this information as a matter of personal opinion and experience. It is in no way meant to be personal medical advice and if you think you are infected you should seek treatment from your local physician immediately.

Where things stand as of today:

World Wide Cases: 38,326,891
Global Deaths: 1,088,804
Global Mortality Rate KNOWN CASES: 2.84%
This represents a drop in mortality rate of roughly 1.4% since July 19, 2020

US Confirmed Cases: 7,883,392
US Deaths: 216,323
US Mortality Rate KNOWN CASES: 2.74%
This represents a drop in mortality rate of 1% since July 19, 2020

A reasonable estimate of the number of unknown cases is at least double the number of known cases, and possible much higher. The reasons for this is that a large number of people that are "exposed" to COVID19 and "catch" COVID 19 either never have symptoms or have very mild symptoms and do not get tested. If we use double the number of known cases (which is a very conservative estimate) then the mortality rates change:
Global Mortality Rate: 1.42%
US Mortality Rate: 1.32%

So why has the mortality rate gone down? The answer lies in several dynamics in this case:
A) Improved Treatments
B) Reduced Viral Virulence likely through natural selection
C) Group Immunity (intentionally avoiding the phrase "Heard Immunity" which is used incorrectly by the media)
D) Improved Testing

Lets explore this some more.

A) Current updated treatment approach in the United States as adopted by me (mostly consistent with everyone else, I tend to hit earlier with steroids and Zithromax):
1) Asymptomatic positive: Nothing
2) Mildly symptomatic positive with no respiratory symptoms: Supportive care (Tylenol, Hydrate, Chicken Soup, Rest)
3) Symptomatic with respiratory symptoms w/o hypoxemia: Supportive care plus Zithromax and Steroids (Dexamethasone or Prednisone)
4) Symptomatic with respiratory symptoms with hypoxemia and Chest Xray Changes: Admit to hospital, convalescent plasma (IgG antibody to COVID from donors), Remdesivir, High Dose Dexamethasone, and the Vitamins (Zinc, MVI, possible Vit D)
5) Severely Symptomatic with Respiratory Failure: Everything listed under 4 plus high flow oxygen first, then BiPAP if need. Self prone position as much as possible. Avoid intubation and positive pressure ventilation if at all possible. If intubated and ventilated, adopt ARDS treatment protocols and/or Airway Pressure Release Ventilation and prone 18 hours a day. Heavy sedation when on vent, often with addition of paralytic agent.
Patient with risk factors may be bumped up a number depending on presentation.
**Risk Factors can be divided into one of five categories in order of importance in my experience: Age, Morbid Obesity, Diabetes, COPD, other comorbidities.


A) Treatment: Key in treatment is early recognition of those with hypoxemia and xray chance and QUICK treatment with plasma, anti-viral (Remdesivir), and high dose steroids. In my experience and in the experience of my colleges and nationally, the EARLY TREATMENT with this combination really does seem to save lives. Prior to these therapies and back when COVID 19 first started, it was not unusual for me to have 10-12 ICU patients with COVID 19 on the ventilator. These days for the last 2 months I have averaged about 3 ventilated COVID 19 patients a week. That represents a TREMENDOUS improvement. Keeping the off the vent is key. If you don't go on the vent, you have a 99.9% survival rate. If you do go on the vent you have a 55-60% survival rate nationally. This mirrors my experience in my ICUs.

How does this combination therapy work? Why is it such a game changer?
When you get COVID 19 infection your body has a natural immune response to the infection. In a small percentage of people, the immune system is hyper-responsive and attacks not just the virus but also the human body, most frequently in COVID, the lungs. These leads to Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome (ARDS) which causes the Respiratory Failure and shunt physiology in the lung. This leads to severe hypoxemia (low oxygen levels) and eventual scaring of the lung. At it's fullest expression, this leads to death due to suffocation.
So, the COVID IgG antibody (either from plasma from donors who have recovered from COVID) or the new monoclonal IgG COVID AB soon to be on the market (the one the president received) binds to the Coronavirus preventing it from infecting the airway cells and thus preventing infection and the subsequent immune responds. The IgG AB you have to COVID, the less virus is left unbound to infect your cells.
The anti-viral Remdesivir kills the most Coronavirus that does enter your body thereby reducing the number of virions left alive, something in medicine referred to as LOWERING YOUR VIRAL LOAD.
The high dose Dexamethasone reduces your immune response (which is what Plaquenil does as well in theory, but not as effectively as the steroids).

So in summation, after exposure and infection, if you are treated with this "cocktail," the IgG binds to much of the Coronavirus in your body rendering it non-infectious and eventually killing the virus. Most of the small percentage of virus that eludes the IgG will then be killed by the Remdesivir. If there is still enough virus left (live or dead) to cause a hyper-immune response in the susceptible population, the dexamethasone greatly reduces the immune response. This combination if extremely effective IF GIVEN EARLY. If given to late in the course (when they are already near 100% oxygen requirements or on the vent) if is seldom as effective and often to late.

B) Reduced virulence is the natural history of almost every viral plague or successful bacteria through history. The purpose of the virus is to reproduce it's genetic code, which is an RNA code in this case. Therefore, it serves no purpose for the virus to kill it's host which it is using to reproduce it's genetic code to then be released by millions of viral particles through the host. The host in this case being us. If a virus mutates in such a way that it becomes more virulent, and kills off it's host, then less of that virus is replicated and released. Those mutations therefore die out. The mutations that allow the virus to replicate with little to now damage to the host are replicated and released in much higher numbers and win out over time. This is why, historically, most new viral "plagues" wean over time and you see a generally predicable decline in mortality rate w/in the first few years. There is no reason to suspect that COVID19 will be any different than any other virus in this regard and we are, indeed, seeing lowering mortality rates. The key here is to realize the mortality rates are declining not just in the US (where we have all these amazing treatments at our fingertips as doctors) but also around the world including many countries with little to know healthcare.

If you want further proof of how super virulent viruses die out before they spread, well, ever wonder why all Ebola outbreaks are very time limited geographically limited? They kill off the host to fast and at too high a percentage to spread.

Continued..............................
 
C) Group Immunity. To much has been made of the term "heard immunity." It is being applied incorrectly here. Heard immunity usually refers to immunoglobulin immunity, which requires specific antibodies which develop only after specific exposure to the infection or through immunization. I prefer the term group immunity because it allows for inclusion of all aspects of the human immune response, not just immunoglobulins. The human immune system has a vast armamentarium of weapons to fight invaders of which immunoglobulins are just one branch. The human immune system fights infections with numerous types of cells and other components including T-cells, B-cells, Natural Killer Cells, Polymorphonuclear Leukocyte (basophils, eosinophils, neutrophils), Lymphocytes, Monocytes, Cytokines, and Compliment System. It is through the combined combination of all of these responses that we attack and kill invaders to our body. In addition, the largest defense we have against invaders, the largest organ of our body, is the skin. It is my contention as a doctor that both the US and the World is developing a group immunity to COVID making us less susceptible to catching the virus and/or allowing us to fend it off better if we do catch it.

It is also my contention that this group immunity did not just develop this year, but was somewhat already in place. How is that possible? Because COVID 19 is not the first coronavirus our bodies have been exposed too. Coronavirus as a cause for upper respiratory tract infection (aka cold) has been around for a hundred years having first been discovered in the 1920s. There are several types of coronaviruses including, but not limited to, sever common cold viruses, MERS, SARS, and COVID 19 (aka SARS2). As a species on this planet, Homosapien sapien (aka humans) have been exposed to coronaviruses for a minimum of 100 years and likely for several thousands of years. As such, are body, in particular our immune system, has already evolved to be less susceptible to coronaviruses as a mechanism of survival and natural selection. So when a novel strain of coronavirus comes along, such a SARS and SARS2 (aka COVID 19) our bodies already are familiar enough with the new strain to prevent most of us from either catching it or catching a severe case of the new virus as a function of our combined immune system, not just antibodies. And then, over time, through natural selection, the more susceptible Homosapien sapien's die off, the group immunity improves, and the virus becomes less virulent.

D) Improved Testing: This is a simple concept. Over the last 6 months we have greatly improved our ability to test people for infection with COVID 19. As such, we no longer reserve the test to hospitals for use on more symptomatic patients. Pretty much anyone in the US can get a COVID test if they want one. We also screen asymptomatic people in many settings, such as college football players, on a weekly or bi-weekly or even more frequent schedule. As such we are diagnosing far more people with mild to asymptomatic cases of COVID that would not have been tested back in March or April, given us a better understanding of the actual spread and epidemiology of the infection. As such, the number of COVID 19 cases has gone up while the hospitalization rate and mortality rate has gone down indicitive of the fact that we are diagnosing a much higher number of mild cases.

In summation, COVID 19 is weakening and our ability to test for it, understand it, and fight it has improved exponentially since March of this year. The virus weakening in a viral pandemic is predicable and consistent with our historical experience with viral pandemics. What needs to be applauded is our nations response to this pandemic. KEEPING POLITICS OUT OF THIS, In the history of medicine I have NEVER heard or seen the development of so many weapons so fast to fight a new disease. It's unheard of. Within the course of less than 6 months we have gone from having basically nothing to stop this virus in its extreme form to having a literal armamentarium of medicines that, when used early and properly, has an amazing effect on the survivability of this disease. THIS CANNOT BE UNDERSTATED. This is a new blueprint developed by Western Medicine lead by the United States on how to respond to a new global pandemic. We should be extremely proud to be Americans in this regard. Our researchers, drug companies, doctors (excluding myself) and nurses should be recognized as HERO's on the highest of levels. What they have done, the speed in which they responded, the achievements they are responsible, the tools they have given us to fight this virus, the lives they have saved can NEVER BE UNDERESTIMTED.

Continued......................
 
Regarding the outbreak amongst the Florida and Ole Miss football teams:
It was inevitable. COVID 19 is a cold virus. Cold viruses are highly infectious. Since they were not living in a bubble, something I do not advocate in the first place, it was inevitable that there would be a "COVID outbreak" in the SEC.
Some key things to understand here:
Age is by far the biggest risk factor. According to the CDC website updated 10/14/2020, the total number of deaths from COVID 19 in the age range of 15-24 is 374 in the US.
So in the age range of most college athletes, the mortality rate of COVID 19 is 0.004%
By way of comparison, your risk of dying in an automobile crash in the age range of 15-24 is 0.005%
Aside from scooters at Florida, I have not heard of a plan to shut down colleges and college sports due to driving cars..............

In addition, young people tend to almost always get a milder case of infection or no symptoms at all from COVID infection. Perhaps our staff can check on this, but I have not heard that any of the players that have tested positive of being symptomatic and have certainly not heard of any of them needing to seek medical care for their infection outside the confines of the team medical staff. This would be consistent with the reality that most kids don't get very sick from this infection.

This is why it was relatively very safe to play college sports this fall and this year and why the mass hysteria and fear over kids of all ages going back to school was overblown and not based in fact. Far more damage is done to our nation, our colleges, our students and our kids by denying them access to schools, school food programs, and normal socialization than would ever be done by Coronavirus. The numbers don't lie.

Finally, if we do a good job of controlling the infection, controlling the spread, this should all be over in 7-10 days. At least this "outbreak."

In summary, while a nuisance, thankfully there is very little risk of any of our players or college athletes around the nation of dying or even getting a serve case of this version of the cold virus.

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History of Plagues

Some on here have taken exception to my description of this COVID 19 pandemic as being "wonderfully mild." Some context here would help. I have spent a career training for the inevitable pandemic we all knew was coming. Why inevitable, because historically there is a major pandemic of some sort every 100 years or so. The last major one in terms of death rate was the 1918 Influenza pandemic.
Most thought it would be a influenza virus mutation again this time, turned out to be a new strain of coronavirus instead. We were taught to fear this coming pandemic because of the risk it might outstrip our resources (ventilators, ICU beds, Hospital beds, Medicines, Doctors, Nurses) leading to millions of death in under a year. We were told as doctors we would have to triage resources and have to pick who would live and die at the doors of our hospitals. No doctor EVER wants to send someone home to die we might be able to save because we don't have the resources to help them. The very thought of that is one I have had to prepare to face a few times in my life and, thankfully, wonderfully, have not had to follow through on. COVID 19 never pushed us that far, and has by historical comparison and what we prepared for as Pulmonary doctors, a wonderfully mild pandemic.

It is just that, wonderfully mild compared to what we were trained. And I hope and pray to God that continues, which, as of now, there is every indication that trend of a wonderfully mild pandemic will continue. This does not mean I lack empathy for those that died from COVID, it just means I have a much better perspective than what has been feed to America by an irrational fear mongering media in a feeding frenzy of fear and negativity. If anyone on here truly thinks I lack empathy, the image of having to do one handed chest compressions while ambu-bag mask ventilating a young beautiful 18 year old otherwise perfectly healthy women from the head of the bed that died from COVID 19 related vasculitis while haunt my memories forever.

So, quickly, by the numbers for perspective, famous pandemics and epidemics through history (keep in mind regarding these numbers that the worlds population is any where from 3 times to 1000 times bigger now than during these plagues):
-Influenza of 1918 killed 100 million people world-wide, most in 1918. That reflects a mortality rate of 5.5% of the worlds population in roughly one year.

-Smallpox is estimated to have killed anywhere from 10 million to 100 million or 90% of the indigenous population in the Western Hemisphere between 1492 and 1525 leading to the collapse of both the Aztec and Inca Empires as well as the Mississippian culture of the Central and Eastern United States (exact population numbers of indigenous population are unknown).

-Cocoliztli epidemic was a form of enteric hemorrhagic fever that killed 15 million inhabitants of Mexico and Central America between 1545 and 1548 and was felt to be due to Salmonella paratyphi C.

-The Black Death, caused by Yersinia pestis, killed 100-130 million people between 1346-1353, or roughly 1/3 to 1/2 of the world population at the time. A mortality rate of approximately 32%

-The Antonie Plague AD 165-180 killed 5 million people in the Roman Empire and lead to the destabilization of the Empire itself and marked the beginning of its decline. It was likely a smallpox plague. That reflects a mortality rate of 2.6% of the estimated worlds population.

-COVID 19 numbers to date show a world wide mortality of 1,088,804 or roughly 0.01% of the worlds population.

I could go on and on, but when you compare both the raw number and the numbers as a percentage of total world population at the time of the different plagues, there is little doubt that our current COVID pandemic pales in comparison both in raw numbers and certainly as a percentage of world population making it, thankfully, a WONDERFULLY MILD PANDEMIC to date.

Continued...................
 
Shutting down the nation. Once it was clear that we would not outstrip our resources, the concept of shutting down our nation and hiding in our houses became a bad idea. It was clear by mid April that continuing the shutdown was a bad idea as the cure should never be worse than the disease. It was evident that we were going to hurt and kill far more people by shutting down our nation than COVID was ever going to kill. So while the shutdown the first 3-4 weeks made sense and was reasonable until we knew what we were dealing with, continuing the shutdown after that became growingly unreasonable and more harmful than the virus every was, thank God. It is now clear to an every growing number of physicians and epidemiologist and public health experts that prolonged shutdowns DOES NOT PREVENT the spread of the virus, it only delays it and it does so at the expense of the economy and health of the nation. It is only a useful tool on those rare occasions when the number of severely infected patients outstrips our resources which, thankfully, I don't see every happening on a large scale.

So, please, for God's sake, STOP shutting everything down and stop spreading fear. Man up, go back to life, and realize the odds of you catching and dying from COVID are roughly 0.01% in your lifetime as of today.

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MASK
Very controversial topic with a ton of misinformation out there. It doesn't help when the director of the CDC goes on national television and completely gets it wrong on how mask work.
So, in short, the only mask type that protects YOU from getting COVID from someone else is the NM-95 when worn correctly.
The surgical mask prevent YOU from SPREADING COVID to others but does NOT protect you from getting COVID
All other "mask" that you guys are buying and "wearing" are all less effective in preventing you from spreading COVID and off you NO protection from getting COVID 19
Mask worn with your nose exposed IS POINTLESS, THOUGH CUTE.
DO MASK WORK..................................well, in theory, if we all had surgical mask and we all wore them correctly at all times, it might reduce the spread of COVID 19 some, but not 100% and likely not as much as some would want you to believe. The fact that Europe is having a large outbreak of COVID 19 despite all the mask mandates you have in many European countries is further proof that, as an exercise, getting millions of people to wear the correct mask correctly is like a futile exercise at best.
As a doctor, I recommend you follow your local and state recommendations on the wearing of mask, but I don't find them very effective as a preventative measure. Instead I urge hand washing, covering your mouth when you sneeze or cough, carrying hand sanitizer, and social distancing when reasonable. As symptomatic people are far more likely to spread the virus than asymptomatic people, I urge you that if you have cold like symptoms STAY HOME AND ISOLATE YOURSELF unless you need medical attention.
As a voter, I don't find mask to be an effective preventative strategy.

To the director of the CDC I say, SHUT UP AND PRAY FOR A VACCINE which will be 1,000 times more effective in preventing spread than the mask, especially since you don't even know how the mask work to prevent the spread of the disease Bubba.

_________________________________

Vaccine: Take it when available, still think we have one by the end of 2020/beginning of 2021, still record pace.
 
Summation (aka Cliff Notes for those with short attention spans and millennials (I kid b/c I love):

COVID19 is a novel mutation of a common RNA cold virus that originated in China
It is also called SARS2
As a cold virus it is easy to catch and hard to avoid
Outbreaks are inevitable but not to be feared
STOP SHUTTING EVERYTHING DOWN AND HIDING
The mortality rate and severity of infection as marked by hospitalization rate is dropping week by week
This is because:
-It is becoming less virulent (weaker)
-We are far more effective treating it now than 6 months ago
-We are far more capable of testing for it now than 6 months ago
-We have a growing combined Group Immunity to COVID 19

College age students and student athletes seldom get severe cases and are still more likely to die in a car crash then from Coronavirus

Your current lifetime risk of dying from COVID 19 is roughly 0.01%

STOP LISTENTING TO MEDIA OUTLETS WITH AGENDAS, these are the actual raw numbers, draw your own conclusions

Take the vaccine when available
 
Super Cliff Note Version for those that can't be bothered to read the Cliff Notes Summation

COVID ain't that bad, WONDERFULLY MILD PANDEMIC
Stop hiding
If you happen to be the small unlikely percentage that gets sick, come see me quickly, we can save you now
Go to work/school
Football good, players good, reschedule LSU game
Vaccine when available
 
Summation (aka Cliff Notes for those with short attention spans and millennials (I kid b/c I love):

COVID19 is a novel mutation of a common RNA cold virus that originated in China
It is also called SARS2
As a cold virus it is easy to catch and hard to avoid
Outbreaks are inevitable but not to be feared
STOP SHUTTING EVERYTHING DOWN AND HIDING
The mortality rate and severity of infection as marked by hospitalization rate is dropping week by week
This is because:
-It is becoming less virulent (weaker)
-We are far more effective treating it now than 6 months ago
-We are far more capable of testing for it now than 6 months ago
-We have a growing combined Group Immunity to COVID 19

College age students and student athletes seldom get severe cases and are still more likely to die in a car crash then from Coronavirus

Your current lifetime risk of dying from COVID 19 is roughly 0.01%

STOP LISTENTING TO MEDIA OUTLETS WITH AGENDAS, these are the actual raw numbers, draw your own conclusions

Take the vaccine when available
Cool. Thanks.

Not that different that what the media is reporting, but with a different slant.

The only thing i take exception to is your mortality rate. While factual at this point, let’s say we took your advice six months ago and just let Er rip. No mitigation. I have a feeling the mortality rate would be much higher. And mortality rates aren’t the only negative. Nobody wants to spend a month in the hospital.

But I’m pretty much on the same page now. The curve has been flattened. A lot of the weak have died off. Treatments are better. HCQ is a farce.

Im now going to the office, stores and restaurants, but with a mask. My 80 year old mother and my in laws are still staying home. It’s the reasonable thing to do.
 
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Cool. Thanks.

Not that different that what the media is reporting, but with a different slant.

i take exception to your mortality rate. While factual at this point, let’s say we took your advice six months ago and just let Er rip. No mitigation. I have a feeling the mortality rate would be much higher. And mortality rates aren’t the only negative. Nobody wants to spend a month in the hospital.

But I’m pretty much on the same page now. The curve has been flattened. A lot of the weak have died off. Treatments are better. HCQ is a farce.

Im now going to the office, stores and restaurants, but with a mask. My 80 year old mother and my in laws are still staying home. It’s the reasonable thing to do.
Regarding your first statement, I’m not sure if you’re serious or being sarcastic? From what I’ve seen the vast majority of the mainstream media is trying to make this out to be the worst plague in history because it suits their agenda. I take great exception of the miss information that has been spread through the news on all channels including Laura Ingram‘s love affair with Plaquenil.

So would you mind pointing out specific things in my post that is consistent with what we’ve been hearing from the media or not that different?

Regarding your second comment, what is your definition of mitigation and please find where in my post I have ever advocated against mitigation. And I’ll remind you that six months ago I actually was the first one to defend and propose not only mitigation but shutting the country down for a few weeks until we knew what we were doing with.

About one month into shutting the country down is when I said it was time to open things back up, and that’s roughly when we did open things back up In many states. Predictably after we open things back up there was a surge in the number of cases but it never outstripped our resources and we continued reasonable mitigation strategies which continue to this day. That strategy, which certainly her economy for a while, may or may not of helped keep the numbers as low as they are. There were a few countries that did not follow any form of medication and research a shown their numbers really aren’t any different. No matter what degree of mitigation you employ sooner or later the numbers will catch up because that’s how viruses wor that strategy, will certainly hurt our Konomi for a while, may or may not of helped keep the numbers as low as they are.

So the numbers you see actually reflect the strategy that I advocated and agreed with so I’m not sure what your point is? Am I missing something? Do you have a different definition of mitigation?

And to this day I still advocate high risk people self isolate as much as reasonably possible so I agree with that final sentence.

One final point, everybody should realize that in the United States medication is voluntary and our country did an amazing job considering it’s voluntary. Where was tried to be forced in opposed to date has always been overruled by courts unless I missed something, As well it should because without laws supporting them mandates have no real authority. I’ll leave it to our resident legal experts to check me on that.
 
Cool. Thanks.

Not that different that what the media is reporting, but with a different slant.

The only thing i take exception to is your mortality rate. While factual at this point, let’s say we took your advice six months ago and just let Er rip. No mitigation. I have a feeling the mortality rate would be much higher. And mortality rates aren’t the only negative. Nobody wants to spend a month in the hospital.

But I’m pretty much on the same page now. The curve has been flattened. A lot of the weak have died off. Treatments are better. HCQ is a farce.

Im now going to the office, stores and restaurants, but with a mask. My 80 year old mother and my in laws are still staying home. It’s the reasonable thing to do.
Couple of other quick points. There are some countries that followed no social mitigation and At this point in time their numbers are not any worse than ours. Point being sooner or later No gonna how much you hide from this virus, your numbers will return to the same curve because when she go back out into the world the virus is still going to get you.

I have always maintained and will continue to maintain at the point of social mitigation is simply to make sure you don’t outstrip your resources which we never did America so it’s hard to argue that things were not done correctly.

I’ll leave it there with you because I know your political leaning will prevent you from ever recognizing or agreeing with me completely :)
 
Couple of other quick points. There are some countries that followed no social mitigation and At this point in time their numbers are not any worse than ours. Point being sooner or later No gonna how much you hide from this virus, your numbers will return to the same curve because when she go back out into the world the virus is still going to get you.

I have always maintained and will continue to maintain at the point of social mitigation is simply to make sure you don’t outstrip your resources which we never did America so it’s hard to argue that things were not done correctly.

I’ll leave it there with you because I know your political leaning will prevent you from ever recognizing or agreeing with me completely :)
Which countries are those? We have the fourth highest mortality rate in the world.

As I said, I mostly agree with you. Why do I have to agree with you completely? That seems a bit insecure.

Id much rather die later than sooner. I’m funny that way. It has nothing to do with politics.
 
Regarding your first statement, I’m not sure if you’re serious or being sarcastic? From what I’ve seen the vast majority of the mainstream media is trying to make this out to be the worst plague in history because it suits their agenda. I take great exception of the miss information that has been spread through the news on all channels including Laura Ingram‘s love affair with Plaquenil.

So would you mind pointing out specific things in my post that is consistent with what we’ve been hearing from the media or not that different?

Regarding your second comment, what is your definition of mitigation and please find where in my post I have ever advocated against mitigation. And I’ll remind you that six months ago I actually was the first one to defend and propose not only mitigation but shutting the country down for a few weeks until we knew what we were doing with.

About one month into shutting the country down is when I said it was time to open things back up, and that’s roughly when we did open things back up In many states. Predictably after we open things back up there was a surge in the number of cases but it never outstripped our resources and we continued reasonable mitigation strategies which continue to this day. That strategy, which certainly her economy for a while, may or may not of helped keep the numbers as low as they are. There were a few countries that did not follow any form of medication and research a shown their numbers really aren’t any different. No matter what degree of mitigation you employ sooner or later the numbers will catch up because that’s how viruses wor that strategy, will certainly hurt our Konomi for a while, may or may not of helped keep the numbers as low as they are.

So the numbers you see actually reflect the strategy that I advocated and agreed with so I’m not sure what your point is? Am I missing something? Do you have a different definition of mitigation?

And to this day I still advocate high risk people self isolate as much as reasonably possible so I agree with that final sentence.

One final point, everybody should realize that in the United States medication is voluntary and our country did an amazing job considering it’s voluntary. Where was tried to be forced in opposed to date has always been overruled by courts unless I missed something, As well it should because without laws supporting them mandates have no real authority. I’ll leave it to our resident legal experts to check me on that.
Regarding the media, I cant really speak for all of them but it is my understanding that

1. The mortality rate is falling
2. Treatments have improved
3. Hospitals are no longer overrun
4. Most people are safe going out in public but masks and social distancing are prudent preventative measures.

Are you hearing something different?
 
Regarding the media, I cant really speak for all of them but it is my understanding that

1. The mortality rate is falling
2. Treatments have improved
3. Hospitals are no longer overrun
4. Most people are safe going out in public but masks and social distancing are prudent preventative measures.

Are you hearing something different?

The mortality rate is falling because NY and NJ governors got caught stuffing covid patients into nursing homes and stopped doing that. I believe 60% of claimed covid deaths came from nursing homes?

And hospitals were never overrun. Most were empty.
 
The mortality rate is falling because NY and NJ governors got caught stuffing covid patients into nursing homes and stopped doing that. I believe 60% of claimed covid deaths came from nursing homes?

And hospitals were never overrun. Most were empty.
I agree

While New York City and Houston were the two cities that came the closest to outstripping the resources, knowing several people that work in both cities I will say this is accurate. They came close. But it’s hard to argue that we outstripped our resources when we move the USS comfort into the harbor and they don’t even use it because they don’t need the beds
Not to mention we have 20,000 ventilators for sale that we never used.

And they were several mistakes made in New York City and New Jersey forcing nursing homes to take patients back that we’re still Covid positive. That’s documented fact.
 
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Regarding the media, I cant really speak for all of them but it is my understanding that

1. The mortality rate is falling
2. Treatments have improved
3. Hospitals are no longer overrun
4. Most people are safe going out in public but masks and social distancing are prudent preventative measures.

Are you hearing something different?

The hospitals were never overrun. We feared they might be but that never materialized.
 
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You rang?
Oh just thought you might be interested in what I wrote a year and a half ago. Pretty spot on, tagged others that have been attacking me for stuff that they are delusional in their own minds about what I’m on record saying. I said these things a year and a half ago.
 
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Oh just thought you might be interested and when I wrote a year and a half ago. Pretty spot on, if I need them using that some of the other people I tagged him that I have been attacking me for stuff that they are delusional in their own minds about when I’m on record saying these things a year and a half ago.
Gotcha. As you and I have discussed - there's actually more than one delusional person on here. Some personality disorders, some hopeless Luddites, and some I'd give a wide swath to in a public setting. And I don't even disagree with most of them politically, in the main.
I feel sometimes like they're fading.in my rear view mirror...
 
Gotcha. As you and I have discussed - there's actually more than one delusional person on here. Some personality disorders, some hopeless Luddites, and some I'd give a wide swath to in a public setting. And I don't even disagree with most of them politically, in the main.
I feel sometimes like they're fading.in my rear view mirror...
Agreed. I don’t even disagree with them politically most of the time. They’re just incredibly disagreeable people for all those reasons you mentioned above. This is a perfect place for them to congregate so that the rest of the world doesn’t have to deal with them as much.
 
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Oh and your case I just thought you might be interested. In their case I just wanted to remind them what I said a year and a half ago :) was pretty spot on

Still giving RSV Vaccine shots to kiddos? I know you are trying to regain credibility, but the amount if times you have been wrong have already destroyed that.


 
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Oh wow. Have you been calling me? Is your name Spam Risk? And all along I thought it was Nut Job...

Nah, just laughing at you for desperately following around a guy whose self esteem is so low that his MO is to PM posters to try and get hap. His desperate need to get followers is quite comical.

Feel sorry for him actually. But it’s funny that you exposed him again (unwittingly) ITT.

Looking at you DD

@gator1776
 
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Nah, just laughing at you for desperately following around a guy whose self esteem is so low that his MO is to PM posters to try and get hap. His desperate need to get followers is quite comical.

Feel sorry for him actually. But it’s funny that you exposed him again (unwittingly) ITT.

Looking at you DD

@gator1776
Desperate? 😂 You know, that's a word that I've been able to avoid being associated with...all my life. And I certainly never "followed any guy around"...but then you and I probably never ever traveled in the same social circles...so you wouldn't know women like me. Only from afar...Maybe.

You're one of those fring-ey type guys aren't you? It's okay...keep on livin that dream, sweetie. I think we vote similarly but that's where it ends. 😉
 
Desperate? 😂 You know, that's a word that I've been able to avoid being associated with...all my life. And I certainly never "followed any guy around"...but then you and I probably never ever traveled in the same social circles...so you wouldn't know women like me. Only from afar...Maybe.

You're one of those fring-ey type guys aren't you? It's okay...keep on livin that dream, sweetie. I think we vote similarly but that's where it ends. 😉

Fringe? Nah, I am further to the right than fringe. I don’t compromise my beliefs.

As for the other stuff, of not following anyone around? Ok. 🙄
 
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Fringe? Nah, I am further to the right than fringe. I don’t compromise my beliefs.

As for the other stuff, of not following anyone around? Ok. 🙄
I'm sure you get along with others really well. 🙄
 
Fringe? Nah, I am further to the right than fringe. I don’t compromise my beliefs.

As for the other stuff, of not following anyone around? Ok. 🙄
How's did your Florida vaca go? Take any charters, catch any fish?
 
Those death numbers are a complete joke and it differs widely by country because of what they consider actual Covid deaths. Many far east asian countries wont consider you a covide death unless basically Covid killed you all by itself while in the US the doctors were using those joke tests to get a Covid death any way they could for the extra payment to the hospital from the govt. Haven't looked at it for quite a while but one time I actually went through those death numbers and the changes in the types of deaths etc. and it led me to think maybe 1/3 of the listed Covid deaths in the US were really early deaths due to having Covid.

They should have never made the payouts bigger for some things at the hospital if the person tested for Covid because all it has done is lead to the hospitals doing some pretty crooked things costing many people their lives. On a related note the crooked bastards even threaten the doctors there with termination if they even follow a court order to administer ivermectin causing the families to have to find an outside doctor to go to the hospital to do it.
 
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I do. Thx. It’s weird that folks appreciate folks who are unwavering in who they are, and not wishy washy trying to appease, like say….a Mitt Romney, or Liz Cheney. Seems like no other conservatives like them.
Well then we do agree. Liz Cheney is a no for me.
Romney? If he's running against Obama....ohhhh wait a minute....🙄
 
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No masts.
No social distancing.
No poison vaxx.
Ivermectin + and doing well.
My agenda has worked well for me, as I continue to live FREE in sunny Florida.
😛

1776 QUACK 😷 is still a loser doc-tor practicing medicine with a predatory capitalist $$$ agenda, instead of being interested in actually curing patients imo.
 
No masts.
No social distancing.
No poison vaxx.
Ivermectin + and doing well.
My agenda has worked well for me, as I continue to live FREE in sunny Florida.
😛

1776 QUACK 😷 is still a loser doc-tor practicing medicine with a predatory capitalist $$$ agenda, instead of being interested in actually curing patients imo.

What do you have against
masts-of-old-sailing-ship.jpg

?
 
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Typo's happen, or is that a new thingy for you too, being an un-informed wewe? 😁
 
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