What scenario do you guys think there is where Trump does NOT win the republican nomination?

[BamaFan1137]

It isn't. That's the point.

If all we do is vote every 4 years, complain about the results for a week, then go back to our lives and vote again 2 years later, nothing changes.

If your car was down a quart of oil, you would add a quart to fill it. If your car lost a quart of oil every week, would you keep putting more oil in it, or would you investigate why it was losing so much oil?

You don't fix a corrupt voting system by voting anymore than you fix a massive oil leak by adding more oil.

So voting for one over the other, in and of itself, makes ZERO difference.

So this is why I'm always confused when people say, "get off your porch" in reference to someone stating that they prefer DeSantis over Trump. It's nonsense.

And a person is just as likely to do nothing about securing elections whether they vote for Trump or DeSantis.

 

[Capt Ron 1]

Voted for Trump twice but would not a third time. And yes, if only legitimate votes from eligible voters were counted, he would have won in 2020. But he is Toxic. Biden is incompetent. I'm looking for a leader that is sharp, articulate, electable and younger. DeSantis will clear the deck when he gets in and in head to head debates will wipe the floor with Trump.

And our neighborhood is it's own precinct and voted 82% for Trump against Biden and 75% against Hillary. Yet I have not spoken to anyone of our 2900 residents who is in favor of Trump winning the nomination. If Ron gets in, he will win GOP nomination easily.

I would hope you would vote for him if he was our primary winner against ANY lefty! LOL

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

So this is why I'm always confused when people say, "get off your porch" in reference to someone stating that they prefer DeSantis over Trump. It's nonsense.

Who said that?

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

I would hope you would vote for him if he was our primary winner against ANY lefty! LOL

If he doesn't believe in the candidate, he shouldn't vote for him.

IMO voting for a candidate just to try to keep another candidate out of office is a vote for the uniparty.

My vote has to be earned from this point forward. I have voted for my last Romney or mccain to try to keep the slightly worse obama out of office.

 

[BamaFan1137]

Who said that?

People on this board. Which ones??? I honestly couldn't tell you.

That response just always confused me.

I want our elections to be secured. The most obvious path to get that done...win elections. Sort of a catch-22 there.

To our liberal friends...even if you aren't buying the stolen election theories, even you would benefit from an electorate that trusts the elections process.

 

[NavigatorII]

It was part of a large bill that I've admitted that he shouldn't have signed with that clause in it.

He didn't sign a bill that exclusively stated, "you'll get the shot if I say so."

I'm rather surprised he didn't make them strike that clause. Someone sneak that in on him? It's impossible to read through all the garbage you have to put a pen on, but worthy aids would have caught it and sent it back to be amended.

 

[BamaFan1137]

If he doesn't believe in the candidate, he shouldn't vote for him.

IMO voting for a candidate just to try to keep another candidate out of office is a vote for the uniparty.

My vote has to be earned from this point forward. I have voted for my last Romney or mccain to try to keep the slightly worse obama out of office.

Not sure it's as black and white for most of us.

I would prefer DeSantis. I absolutely would not hate it if Trump won. Both are far better for me than the alternative.

If I didn't vote for Trump if he's the candidate, that's stubborn, ignorant and cutting my nose off in spite of my face because the alternative is far worse.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

People on this board. Which ones??? I honestly couldn't tell you.

That response just always confused me.

I want our elections to be secured. The most obvious path to get that done...win elections. Sort of a catch-22 there.

To our liberal friends...even if you aren't buying the stolen election theories, even you would benefit from an electorate that trusts the elections process.

I read this board pretty regularly (LOL) and I've never seen anyone say that. I have no doubt you heard it, but that's another matter.

Look at this board: We can't even agree that there was voter fraud in 2020 and 2022. And I think the majority of that comes from the fact that admitting there was voter fraud means Trump won.

Some people simply want to move on from Trump.

I would HAPPILY trade Trump for secure elections from now on. In an instant. Despite how much MORE good work I know Trump will do in his second term. It's THAT important to have free and secure elections.

But we don't vote our way to having them.

 

[BamaFan1137]

I'm rather surprised he didn't make them strike that clause. Someone sneak that in on him? It's impossible to read through all the garbage you have to put a pen on, but worthy aids would have caught it and sent it back to be amended.

Agree. I'd like to know how it got through. Was it incompetence or was it a compromise?

 

[NavigatorII]

Agree. I'd like to know how it got through. Was it incompetence or was it a compromise?

We have a ruby red legislature so who was there to compromise with? It honestly makes no sense seeing how anti-woke, anti-jab DeSantis has been after the first couple of months of covid hysteria. Remember, everyone was on board briefly with vaccines until they weren't. When negative data started coming out, that's when the tide turned. Trump was pro vaccine as well.

 

[BamaFan1137]

I read this board pretty regularly (LOL) and I've never seen anyone say that. I have no doubt you heard it, but that's another matter.

I'll assure you that I've read it in response to my post where I said, "I prefer DeSantis over Trump."

Maybe the person(s) who said it to me didn't fully understand what "get off your porch" meant???

 

[Gator Fever]

Here’s a pretty good look at Trump’s attempts to attack Desantis on Covid.

Interesting question: who’s going to flip out worse if Desantis beats trump in the primary, Trump or Ghost?

I think Trump won't be effected by the vaccine stuff that much as DeSantis was a big vaccine pusher until the political winds on that clearly reversed with Reps. Also contrary to revisionist history DeSantis was not one of the good Rep Govs when it came to Covid restrictions and limitations etc. and just changed his tune with Rep polling data later on. Even Noem was a lightweight when it came to protecting employees from emoyer vaccine mandate. It was funny seeing the social media influencers spinning the lies about how great DeSantis was to other Governors on Covid though when he was even worse than cocktail club Rep Kemp in Georgia.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

Not sure it's as black and white for most of us.

It isn't. We all have to vote for who we think is the best candidate and our convictions.

My logic is this: If I keep voting for bad candidates, all I am doing is encouraging the Pubs to run more bad candidates, and I'm encouraging more GOOD candidates NOT to run.

Trump is the first candidate I've voted for in my lifetime that I actually believed in.

Think about how sad that is? Every single election we should ALL be voting for a candidate that we believe in. The vast majority of us never do.

That's on us. We have to support GOOD candidates when they run, and reject the bad ones. We've been suckered into this 'you gotta vote, it's your duty!' line, and all that does is ensure more bad candidates.

IMO. As long as I love the candidate, he gets my vote. Otherwise, I am staying home on Election Day.

 

[BamaFan1137]

We have a ruby red legislature so who was there to compromise with? It honestly makes no sense seeing how anti-woke, anti-jab DeSantis has been after the first couple of months of covid hysteria. Remember, everyone was on board briefly with vaccines until they weren't. When negative data started coming out, that's when the tide turned. Trump was pro vaccine as well.

So you're leaning more towards a screw up? Unbelievable...and a shame.

 

[Gator Fever]

We have a ruby red legislature so who was there to compromise with? It honestly makes no sense seeing how anti-woke, anti-jab DeSantis has been after the first couple of months of covid hysteria. Remember, everyone was on board briefly with vaccines until they weren't. When negative data started coming out, that's when the tide turned. Trump was pro vaccine as well.

DeSantis loved the vaccine well into things. He was bragging how great it was on the news even after his shutdowns and restrictions on businesses.

 

[NavigatorII]

So you're leaning more towards a screw up? Unbelievable...and a shame.

Oversight and a rare instance of incompetence from staff..........unless someone in his circle sabotaged him.

 

[NavigatorII]

DeSantis loved the vaccine well into things. He was bragging how great it was on the news even after his shutdowns and restrictions on businesses.

Not really. In fact, he forced our "RINO" mayor to reopen businesses and beaches in Duval County.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

I'm rather surprised he didn't make them strike that clause. Someone sneak that in on him? It's impossible to read through all the garbage you have to put a pen on, but worthy aids would have caught it and sent it back to be amended.

My guess is IF he runs, Trump and anyone else running will make an immediate issue out of it, and he will likely announce that he's in the process of changing it now.

 

[BamaFan1137]

It isn't. We all have to vote for who we think is the best candidate and our convictions.

My logic is this: If I keep voting for bad candidates, all I am doing is encouraging the Pubs to run more bad candidates, and I'm encouraging more GOOD candidates NOT to run.

Trump is the first candidate I've voted for in my lifetime that I actually believed in.

Think about how sad that is? Every single election we should ALL be voting for a candidate that we believe in. The vast majority of us never do.

That's on us. We have to support GOOD candidates when they run, and reject the bad ones. We've been suckered into this 'you gotta vote, it's your duty!' line, and all that does is ensure more bad candidates.

IMO. As long as I love the candidate, he gets my vote. Otherwise, I am staying home on Election Day.

I understand the logic. And it's exactly what happened when McCain and Mittens last ran for POTUS.

 

[NavigatorII]

I understand the logic. And it's exactly what happened when McCain and Mittens last ran for POTUS.

Well I'm not going to lie. I voted against the Kenyan twice.

 

[BamaFan1137]

Well I'm not going to lie. I voted against the Kenyan twice.

I didn't particularly love either candidate but I knew that Obama wanted to "fundamentally change" America and that wasn't for me. As a result, I voted for both.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

So honest question for the board: What is the downside to adopting the view of Trump supporters that the election was absolutely rigged in 2020 and 2022? Why would it NOT be in the best interests of America to say that they stole the 2020 and 2022 elections?

Why are we all not saying that? We are we all not acting as if that happened?

What would be the downside?

The people that believe the last two elections were stolen, are demanding accountability. In the form of investigations and verification of the election processes.

How is that a bad thing?

If there WAS cheating, then that would uncover the cheating, and we could fix the problem and secure our elections. The benefit to America is obvious. It would kill the democratic party, but that's beside the point.

If there was NOT cheating, then a complete investigation would verify that the elections were clean, and greatly increase trust in the entire process. Which would spike voter participation even more. The benefit to America is obvious.


Either way, the benefit to America is obvious. So why aren't we all adopting the stance of Trump supporters that the last two elections were stolen?

 

[Gator Fever]

Not really. In fact, he forced our "RINO" mayor to reopen businesses and beaches in Duval

Just saying its a myth he was one of the good Rep Govs on vaccines and Covid restrictions. He was like 10th or 11th down the list when it came to Rep Governors on that.

Seven Rep Govs never even did the initial lockdown of non-essential businesses and stay at home thing like DeSantis did and even among the other Rep Govs that had those initial strict Covid restrictions ones like cocktail club Rep Gov Kemp In Georgia stopped the mess sooner than DeSantis did and stopped the schools from forcefully masking kids sooner also.

As late as July 2021 DeSantis was on TV basically telling the 65+ age crowd they were idiots if they didn't get vaccinated. DeSantis also didn't end school masking by the lefties in the state until mid-2021 which was after many other Rep Governors had already done so.

 

[Gator Fever]

Its officially over boys. RDS better think long and hard over running backed by the establishment or he may just ruin any 2028 chances...

 

[Capt Ron 1]

Well I'm not going to lie. I voted against the Kenyan twice.

It pained me to vote for Romney or McCain....they were WEAK as whale piss in the pacific ocean. But I would NEVER be dumb enough to vote for Hussein, who HATES America

 

[Capt Ron 1]

So honest question for the board: What is the downside to adopting the view of Trump supporters that the election was absolutely rigged in 2020 and 2022? Why would it NOT be in the best interests of America to say that they stole the 2020 and 2022 elections?

Why are we all not saying that? We are we all not acting as if that happened?

What would be the downside?

The people that believe the last two elections were stolen, are demanding accountability. In the form of investigations and verification of the election processes.

How is that a bad thing?

If there WAS cheating, then that would uncover the cheating, and we could fix the problem and secure our elections. The benefit to America is obvious. It would kill the democratic party, but that's beside the point.

If there was NOT cheating, then a complete investigation would verify that the elections were clean, and greatly increase trust in the entire process. Which would spike voter participation even more. The benefit to America is obvious.


Either way, the benefit to America is obvious. So why aren't we all adopting the stance of Trump supporters that the last two elections were stolen?

I will say it until the day I die. I 100% KNOW it was stolen. ZERO doubt in my mind....

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

I will say it until the day I die. I 100% KNOW it was stolen. ZERO doubt in my mind....

Of course it was stolen. Everyone here knows that.

I think the dems won't admit that for obvious reasons. I think theres a few other posters who won't go so far as to say it was stolen for fear of being labeled 'one of those crazy election denier kooks'.

There are far worse things than being called an idiot by an idiot. Like living in a country where your vote is stolen from you.

 

[Uniformed_ReRe]

Of course it was stolen. Everyone here knows that.

I think the dems won't admit that for obvious reasons. I think theres a few other posters who won't go so far as to say it was stolen for fear of being labeled 'one of those crazy election denier kooks'.

There are far worse things than being called an idiot by an idiot. Like living in a country where your vote is stolen from you.

Most Americans, including me, do not believe the election was stolen.

 

[BamaFan1137]

So honest question for the board: What is the downside to adopting the view of Trump supporters that the election was absolutely rigged in 2020 and 2022? Why would it NOT be in the best interests of America to say that they stole the 2020 and 2022 elections?

Why are we all not saying that? We are we all not acting as if that happened?

What would be the downside?

The people that believe the last two elections were stolen, are demanding accountability. In the form of investigations and verification of the election processes.

How is that a bad thing?

If there WAS cheating, then that would uncover the cheating, and we could fix the problem and secure our elections. The benefit to America is obvious. It would kill the democratic party, but that's beside the point.

If there was NOT cheating, then a complete investigation would verify that the elections were clean, and greatly increase trust in the entire process. Which would spike voter participation even more. The benefit to America is obvious.


Either way, the benefit to America is obvious. So why aren't we all adopting the stance of Trump supporters that the last two elections were stolen?

I suspect that it was stolen. At times I'm pretty damn close to convinced.

However, for me to state categorically that it was stolen, I would need to see proof that was beyond reasonable doubt.

Why do I feel that way? Without that standard, it's all for naught. Without that standard, whichever side loses can and WILL claim that it was stolen (without the standard of proof mentioned above) and attempt to circumvent our elections process. Surely you see the danger in that.

If it was stolen then we must prove that it was. If for no other reason than to prevent it from happening again.

 

[BamaFan1137]

Most Americans, including me, do not believe the election was stolen.

I think most Americans are actually in my camp. They believe F-ery was afoot but they haven't seen proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

At this point only the far reaches of each party are absolutely certain that it was or was not.

 

[tb8232]

I would hope you would vote for him if he was our primary winner against ANY lefty! LOL

Of course. Let's hope it does not come to that as I do think the media, swamp, non profits would make the 2020 election look honest. And we know it was not.

 

[tb8232]

To insure election integrity, each voter must receive a voter ID #, similar to their SS #. And it must be on their ballot to be recorded. And it must be in person or absentee where their signature on the ballot matches their signature on the request for ballot. Ballot harvesting must become against federal law punishable by fine of $10 K per vote and one year in prison. Getting caught cheating in an election must be a felony. Of course in blue states, we know how that ends up. Blue states are doomed. But are anyway.

 

[EvilWayz]

I suspect that it was stolen. At times I'm pretty damn close to convinced.

However, for me to state categorically that it was stolen, I would need to see proof that was beyond reasonable doubt.

Why do I feel that way? Without that standard, it's all for naught. Without that standard, whichever side loses can and WILL claim that it was stolen (without the standard of proof mentioned above) and attempt to circumvent our elections process. Surely you see the danger in that.

If it was stolen then we must prove that it was. If for no other reason than to prevent it from happening again.

This. If it can't be proven definitively in court, it might as well not have happened.

Of course the possibility exists of corruption and a cover-up so massive that all three branches and both parties were involved.

If that be the case then it will come to light sooner rather than later because you can't conceal something that massive with that many people involved. Human nature and vanity will out.

Either someone will brag or large amounts of people will die under suspicious circumstances.

 

[Uniformed_ReRe]

I think most Americans are actually in my camp. They believe F-ery was afoot but they haven't seen proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

At this point only the far reaches of each party are absolutely certain that it was or was not.

That sounds like the stance of most, or at least the more reasonable half, of Republicans. Most independents do not believe the election was stolen.

No offense, but if you feel like most people are in your camp on this topic, it may have something to do with you being a white, male, middle-aged, cop in Alabama.

 

[NavigatorII]

That sounds like the stance of most, or at least the more reasonable half, of Republicans. Most independents do not believe the election was stolen.

No offense, but if you feel like most people are in your camp on this topic, it may have something to do with you being a white, male, middle-aged, cop in Alabama.

No. It comes with living in Alabama and Florida, where no Hiden signs were to be found for 100s of miles.............Trump road signs, Trump signs and flags in every other yard, Trump bumperstickers, Trump golf cart parades, Trump boat parades.

 

[BamaFan1137]

That sounds like the stance of most, or at least the more reasonable half, of Republicans. Most independents do not believe the election was stolen.

In fairness, many "independent's" aren't all that independent.

No offense, but if you feel like most people are in your camp on this topic, it may have something to do with you being a white, male, middle-aged, cop in Alabama.

Reasonable assertion...it's just wrong.

Living in Alabama, I'm more likely to have relationships and friendships with people of a different race than say someone from Iowa, Wisconsin, Delaware, Minnesota, ect. based simply on demographics.

I am middle-aged but I'm not just a cop. I wear a few hats. Also, the workforce of cops in my general area reflects that of our general demographics.

Being a cop wouldn't make my political outlook "more white." If anything, I could argue the opposite is true. Certainly people in more white professions than my own would have a greater impact on their political outlook if for no other reason than a lack of exposure to different cultures.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

I suspect that it was stolen. At times I'm pretty damn close to convinced.

However, for me to state categorically that it was stolen, I would need to see proof that was beyond reasonable doubt.

So until you see that proof, we do nothing and assume it doesn't exist?

 

[BamaFan1137]

So until you see that proof, we do nothing and assume it doesn't exist?

Absolutely not.

Responsibly, if I were the great decider on such things, I would say that we don’t equivocally state that the election was stolen while simultaneously busting our arse to prove that it was indeed stolen.

I have no issues with us stating that we believe or fear that it might have been stolen, of course. And we should do everything we can, legally, morally and ethically, to make sure it cannot happen again.

 

[GhostOfMatchesMalone]

Absolutely not.

Responsibly, if I were the great decider on such things, I would say that we don’t equivocally state that the election was stolen while simultaneously busting our arse to prove that it was indeed stolen.

I have no issues with us stating that we believe or fear that it might have been stolen, of course. And we should do everything we can, legally, morally and ethically, to make sure it cannot happen again.

This is where I need @GatorTheo to help me: What is the oversight process for Presidential and MIdterm elections?

Is there one???? Is it simply the states themselves certify their own results?

So Katie Hobbs signs a letter saying she legally won the governor's job without cheating?

 

[BamaFan1137]

This is where I need @GatorTheo to help me: What is the oversight process for Presidential and MIdterm elections?

Is there one???? Is it simply the states themselves certify their own results?

So Katie Hobbs signs a letter saying she legally won the governor's job without cheating?

I think it's just the states.

Sticky situation...if you want the states to control their own elections, how do we build oversight??? I honestly don't know.