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My circa 1987 Dr. Marten boots are off to the third world..

CommieGator

Gator Great
Jan 6, 2006
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Gotta say the best footwear I've owned, even better than my Allen Edmonds work stuff, which is pretty top-shelf... It's with much regret that I've had to put them in a charity bin, as they're still wearable, just not by me. Back in the day my 1490's were the chit.

Just ordered a brand new pair of "Vintage" eight-eye 1460 boots (the Vintage series is still manufactured in England as a boutique brand and at a premium price, even though 90% of their boots have now been outsourced to China, Vietnam and Thailand), so I hope I can get as much mileage out of them as the last pair, but we'll see.

It's funny how quality and price function.. Maybe this is something someone knowledgeable like 3B can explain to me- TV's today vs 25 years ago? Better quality, lower prices.. Boots today vs 25 years ago? Lower quality, same or higher prices- You can spend $3k today and get a god-tier 70"+ TV, and the Samsung I bought for the same price many years ago is today paltry in comparison- at the time was one of the first 120mhz LCD sets. Meanwhile my $80 (a fortune for me at the time) boots are now $200 boots.
This post was edited on 10/6 7:31 PM by CommieGator
 
Commie,

I don't know enough about the industry to comment on the relative changes in price vs. quality. However, keep in mind that the $80 you paid in 1987 would be the equivalent of about $163 today. Can you not buy a very good quality pair of boots for $163 today?

I will say that most items have experienced large drops in inflation adjusted prices and/or large jumps in quality due to globalization. I would expect that to be the case for footwear as well. Are you sure it's not just the brand that has gone down in quality? One other possibility is that manufacturing in the UK has grown more expense relative to other places, so you have to pay a premium for that without a requisite increase in quality.

This post was edited on 10/7 10:41 AM by BringBackBonner
 
Originally posted by BringBackBonner:
Commie,

I don't know enough about the industry to comment on the relative changes in price vs. quality. However, keep in mind that the $80 you paid in 1987 would be the equivalent of about $163 today. Can you not buy a very good quality pair of boots for $163 today?

I will say that most items have experienced large drops in inflation adjusted prices and/or large jumps in quality due to globalization. I would expect that to be the case for footwear as well. Are you sure it's not just the brand that has gone down in quality? One other possibility is that manufacturing in the UK has grown more expense relative to other places, so you have to pay a premium for that without a requisite increase in quality.


This post was edited on 10/7 10:41 AM by BringBackBonner
In addition, I would say that the margins on the textile/clothing industry are much lower and therefore totally dependent on the cost of labor and materials unless you get into the 'fashion' part of the industry. Therefore these goods are more subject to general inflation. The computer/TV industry, on the other hand, is subject to Moore's Law, which dictates that technology costs are halved every two years (yes, I know I've basterdized this). In addition, this industry has much higher initial margins because of R&D and therefore the selling price comes down as the technology become commoditized.
 
There are a lot of variables in the cost equation. The biggest reason TVs and other consumer electronics have become so cheap, even in the face of rising quality, is that there was a lot more room for improvement via engineering for electronics. Factoring parts into fewer discrete components made the process cheaper and also made the devices more reliable. Dr. Martens, by contrast, had already engineered pretty much the perfect boot by 1990. There's really nowhere else to go.

Commie, how did your sizing run? What size shoe do you normally wear versus the size Docs you ordered?
 
Originally posted by BringBackBonner:
One other possibility is that manufacturing in the UK has grown more expense relative to other places, so you have to pay a premium for that without a requisite increase in quality.
Thanks for the quick lesson everyone.. I guess it's still hard to believe that inflation has more than doubled the cost of some goods since it seems like just yesterday- although it's been more than 25 years... Wow. That's it really, 3b. I have confidence (and research suggests) the $200 made in England models are of higher quality with better materials, fit and finish than the $120 Chinese version. I also know that they're made by well-paid, unionized shoe-makers/cobblers (read: craftsmen) with experience using the original equipment- instead of essentially piece-work, sweat-shop workers. Even with an $80 premium, I bet the margins are smaller on the English-made boot.

Hoppo-

Ah if I were 15 again and know what I know now... I'd probably pick up a pair of the "original" Dr. Martens- Solovair boots which made the "Dr. Marten" boots under license before the company took over its own production, but it was the Eighties- and before $hitty grunge music co-opted the punk culture for the masses- So it was a fashion choice for sure- Only punx and 'Skins really wore Docs before the Nevermind album ruined everything for the rest of us. I'd probably look into a new pair of Solovair boots today, if I wasn't so identified with the DM brand during those early days of a gloriously miss-spent youth. It'd be cool if someone saw them and called them "fake" or "wannabe" docs actually. The 40-something commiegator looks in the mirror everyday knowing the 15 year old version would have nothing to say other than WTF happened to you?

I also feel old because I know I had a pair of boots older than some of the posters on this board- YOU DAM KIDS STAY OFF MY GRASS!

Anyway, no half-sizes makes a DM fit for some people difficult. I've found that most of my dress-shoes- I normally wear Allen Edmonds are a 9.5.. Sneakers generally a size 10. The UK size 9 are too big for me, so I go with the UK 8 which seem to fit really well. According to the DM size chart I looked at, a UK 8 should fit a US 9 to 9.5, so it seems like they run a hair big. If you're something like a 10.5, I'd guess the UK 9 would probably be a bit large, and the 8's a tight fit. I think the geometry gets a little wonky the larger you go, just having spent a good deal of time in Europe and having had to manage translation.. It seemed to me that the larger you go US, the greater the variance, where smaller sizes are closer, but it could just be my imagination. If you wear a size 15 US, you're on your own for advice.

If you get a good fit, and if the English models they're selling today are as good as the ones I bought back in the day, you should have one fine set of kicks- Mine had about 12 years of constant use, then sporadic use for a dozen more before- with no proper maintenance nor upkeep- they were just worn out.

Whatever person in Angola receives them- he'll have no idea how much amazing/crazy stuff those boots have seen.. Hope he likes 'em.



This post was edited on 10/7 5:45 PM by CommieGator
 
Now that I'm thinking about it, I should probably write a history of my boots...

The time I watched a junkie drop a syringe of heroin into the filthiest, most horribly diarrhea-filled toilet you've ever seen, wipe the needle-part on his jeans and proceed to shoot up his smack at the "old" 9:30 Club in Washington DC.The time Sharon's mom brought down a bottle of Jack Daniel's bourbon and three packs of cigarettes to Sharon's basement where we all were sitting around on old mattresses, listening to The Exploited- Just so she could be the "cool mom." That was ten minutes before Sharon's BF got all tweaked on speed and chased everyone around the street with an axe.The time me and Josh huffed whippets in a mall parking-lot then drove 100mph down the highway with "those echos" pounding reverb in our ears and consciousness slowly fading away, lucky to find ourselves parked somewhere downtown with neither of us knowing exactly how we got there.The time at the 9:30 I accidentally bumped a frat-meathead who asked me if I wanted to take it outside, and I told him I wasn't in the mood for a BJ, and found myself punched in the face and picking myself off the ground- I spit blood all over him, so that's a win- AIDS was a big fear at the time, and while I don't have AIDS, I might have let this blood-soaked effer imagine that I did, and that he was now a carrier.. It was like "28 Days Later" kind of paranoia at the time. All I really did was ruin his shirt.924 Gilman street in 1990. CBGB's in 1991. Three chitty bands I'd never heard of.ABC No Rio in 1992- buying joints from a homeless man from a false-bottom in his cassette-tape case.Drive-by shooting walking by a "go-go" club in DC, probably 1989."Punk Percussion Protest" with Fugazi and Bikini Kill playing for free to protest the appointment of Clarence Thomas to the SCOTUS.The trip to "Needle Park" in Zurich, Switzerland- Junkies, pimps, gangsters and whores.
Countless, countless more.




This post was edited on 10/7 7:40 PM by CommieGator
 
Originally posted by CommieGator:
Now that I'm thinking about it, I should probably write a history of my boots...

The time I watched a junkie drop a syringe of heroin into the filthiest, most horribly diarrhea-filled toilet you've ever seen, wipe the needle-part on his jeans and proceed to shoot up his smack at the "old" 9:30 Club in Washington DC.The time Sharon's mom brought down a bottle of Jack Daniel's bourbon and three packs of cigarettes to Sharon's basement where we all were sitting around on old mattresses, listening to The Exploited- Just so she could be the "cool mom." That was ten minutes before Sharon's BF got all tweaked on speed and chased everyone around the street with an axe.The time me and Josh huffed whippets in a mall parking-lot then drove 100mph down the highway with "those echos" pounding reverb in our ears and consciousness slowly fading away, lucky to find ourselves parked somewhere downtown with neither of us knowing exactly how we got there.The time at the 9:30 I accidentally bumped a frat-meathead who asked me if I wanted to take it outside, and I told him I wasn't in the mood for a BJ, and found myself punched in the face and picking myself off the ground- I spit blood all over him, so that's a win- AIDS was a big fear at the time, and while I don't have AIDS, I might have let this blood-soaked effer imagine that I did, and that he was now a carrier.. It was like "28 Days Later" kind of paranoia at the time. All I really did was ruin his shirt.924 Gilman street in 1990. CBGB's in 1991. Three chitty bands I'd never heard of.ABC No Rio in 1992- buying joints from a homeless man from a false-bottom in his cassette-tape case.Drive-by shooting walking by a "go-go" club in DC, probably 1989."Punk Percussion Protest" with Fugazi and Bikini Kill playing for free to protest the appointment of Clarence Thomas to the SCOTUS.The trip to "Needle Park" in Zurich, Switzerland- Junkies, pimps, gangsters and whores.
Countless, countless more.




This post was edited on 10/7 7:40 PM by CommieGator
Commie, you are an interesting dude. Any time you come through Atlanta, I'll gladly pay for the beer to hear some of these stories.

On the quality issue in the other post, I don't disagree with you about English quality being better than Chinese quality... or whatever else. It's worth it to pay up for higher quality in certain products, especially if you are in the habit of keeping said products for 25 damn years!

On a similar note, I figured you would have posted something about the fact that Motorola has bucked all manufacturing trends by making their newest flagship phone in the US (Texas, of course). I don't know that the quality is up to par with what Apple (China), Samsung (Korea), and HTC (Taiwan) offer, but by manufacturing in the country, it allowed them to compete by offering full customization options to the customer and still allow for quick shipping and in any case, it's cool to see a major company set up large-scale tech manufacturing operations in the USA and do so profitability.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/11/4717796/made-in-america-a-look-inside-motorolas-moto-x-factory
This post was edited on 10/8 10:11 AM by BringBackBonner
 
Never had a pair of Doc's as a kid/through college. My boot of choice was made by Carolina Boot Company. They looked like old school Army boots, were all leather, had a flat sole, and were awesome. I could only find them at a couple of Army-Navy stores, and they were about 100 bucks.

I've had Dr. Marten's low-cut shoes, and I'm looking for another pair. They're extremely comfortable, durable, and can be worn with nearly anything.
 
I have a pair of Allen Edmonds cap toes last almost 20 years. They got resoled several times. But I only recently retired them. Now I only wear them when it rains. I have another pair of Allen Edmonds that are almost 20 years old that are still going strong.

All my suits are well made too. I still have suits that I bought over 15 years ago and they look great.

Buying well made goods that are more expensive is much more cost effective than buying crap that you must replace every few years.
 
Originally posted by Ghost of Spaceheater:
I have a pair of Allen Edmonds cap toes last almost 20 years. They got resoled several times. But I only recently retired them. Now I only wear them when it rains. I have another pair of Allen Edmonds that are almost 20 years old that are still going strong.
Allen Edmonds make very, very fine, high-quality men's dress shoes- every one a classic style, that will work with your classic or contemporary menswear. And they are built to last. AE are among my votes for the highest-quality durable goods available on the planet, and their re-sole policy and costs are astoundingly reasonable given the quality of their original product. Stuff done right is the way to go. I also now occasionally use a vintage 1969 Rolex Oysterdate perpetual wind-up watch that I got for a song- The fashion is wrong (narrow wristband in an era of fattest watches ever), but it's a classic.

Got my new "Made in England" boots today, seem as top notch as what I bought when I was fifteen, although I don't remember the leather being so stiff and unforgiving! I suppose that's a good sign- but I will have a few blisters until they're broken-in and conform to my feet, and my feet to them.

I'm not about to do the whole unboxing thing, just click the hyper-link- It's exactly what I got today, minus the cool dancehall/reggae music- and also I'm not a black dude- I'm so caucasian I really will get a sunburn if I walk past a working television.
This post was edited on 10/9 9:06 PM by CommieGator
 
Originally posted by CommieGator:
Originally posted by Ghost of Spaceheater:
I have a pair of Allen Edmonds cap toes last almost 20 years. They got resoled several times. But I only recently retired them. Now I only wear them when it rains. I have another pair of Allen Edmonds that are almost 20 years old that are still going strong.
Allen Edmonds make very, very fine, high-quality men's dress shoes- every one a classic style, that will work with your classic or contemporary menswear. And they are built to last. AE are among my votes for the highest-quality durable goods available on the planet, and their re-sole policy and costs are astoundingly reasonable given the quality of their original product. Stuff done right is the way to go. I also now occasionally use a vintage 1969 Rolex Oysterdate perpetual wind-up watch that I got for a song- The fashion is wrong (narrow wristband in an era of fattest watches ever), but it's a classic.

Got my new "Made in England" boots today, seem as top notch as what I bought when I was fifteen, although I don't remember the leather being so stiff and unforgiving! I suppose that's a good sign- but I will have a few blisters until they're broken-in and conform to my feet, and my feet to them.

I'm not about to do the whole unboxing thing, just click the hyper-link- It's exactly what I got today, minus the cool dancehall/reggae music- and also I'm not a black dude- I'm so caucasian I really will get a sunburn if I walk past a working television.
This post was edited on 10/9 9:06 PM by CommieGator
I DESPISE fads. I buy classically tailored clothes paying no attention to when lapels get narrower or other garbage like that. I'd wear that watch of yours every damned day. I think those fat watches are ludicrous. Men look like clowns when they pay as much attention to fashion as women do.

Men shouldn't be slaves to fashion; they shouldn't dye their hair; and other than a watch and wedding ring they shouldn't wear jewelry.
 
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