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Michigan's lack of experience going into 2017

Gator Fever

Bull Gator
Feb 13, 2008
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Just looked at a post spring projection of Michigan's starters for 2017 and they are a very young team. About half of the starters will be from his 2016 recruiting class it appears (one WR projecting to probably start is an early enrollee true freshman from the 2017 class).

RB 1
WR 2
OL 2

DL 1
LB 1
Viper 1 (hybrid LB/S)
DB 3

So about 11 of Michigan's 22 starting spots will be either redshirt freshmen or non-redshirt sophomores. You would think looking at that we should have a real big advantage with it being the 1st game of the year but somehow I don't think that will be the case. Can we take advantage of that really young secondary?
 
Can we take advantage of that really young secondary?

That probably depends if you can block the dominant pass rush that will be headed towards the QB. While Michigan lost starters on the DL, they return 3 elite pass rushers that got plenty of PT last year and Michigan's DC Don Brown has a bunch of effective blitz packages that he loves to use. Michigan was one of the most blitz heavy defenses in the country last year and that figures to continue.

Will Florida hit enough deep passes to make up for all the sacks?
 
That probably depends if you can block the dominant pass rush that will be headed towards the QB. While Michigan lost starters on the DL, they return 3 elite pass rushers that got plenty of PT last year and Michigan's DC Don Brown has a bunch of effective blitz packages that he loves to use. Michigan was one of the most blitz heavy defenses in the country last year and that figures to continue.

Will Florida hit enough deep passes to make up for all the sacks?

Yep the D line is the one area there shouldn't be a dropoff for Michigan. They do blitz like crazy and that makes me a little nervous especially if Franks or loves to throw off his backfoot when pressured LDR gets the start.

I think we can win this game but having the very mobile QB would be a big advantage with how they blitz. FSU wasn't completing much against Michigan but got a lot of yards many times when they did. Same in the running game.
 
We don't have a qb. If we win this game sadgator will be astonished.

I think we can win it but QB play does make it a big question mark. Michigan's QB is workmanlike with big game experience but he isn't a game changer type QB.
 
and their QB is even worse than whoever we put out there unless it's rich poor boy
 
Speight was pretty darn good last season until he broke his collarbone against Iowa. He's also playing for a coach with an awful good track record of getting QBs to improve.

He is alright just not a game changer. Vegas I am sure sees QB as the difference in the game right now.

I like our chances if Zaire starts however.
 
That probably depends if you can block the dominant pass rush that will be headed towards the QB. While Michigan lost starters on the DL, they return 3 elite pass rushers that got plenty of PT last year and Michigan's DC Don Brown has a bunch of effective blitz packages that he loves to use. Michigan was one of the most blitz heavy defenses in the country last year and that figures to continue.

Will Florida hit enough deep passes to make up for all the sacks?

LT Martez Ivey 6-5 305 Jr - 2X All SEC - 5 Star Parade AA

OC T.J. McCoy 6-1 308 rsSO - Began the season as a #3, but was forced in after 1 & 2 went down injured. He started the rest of the way and played so well that the other 2 never won back the job. He is now the 2017 projected starter. Nasty!

RT Jawaan Taylor 6-5 340 So - Fr All SEC & Fr All American

And in between those 3 starters are 2 pretty decent OG's, depending on who they settle in on at the guard spots.

RG Antonio Riles 6-4 313 rsJr
RG Tyler Jordan 6-4 309 Jr
-----
LG Kavaris Harkless 6-5 310 rsJr
LG/C Brett Heggie 6-3 317 rsFr

With the best OL size and depth that they've had in years:
OT Ricardo Benalcazar 6-7 352 Sr
RT/RG Fred Johnson 6-6 311 Jr
OT/OG Andrew Mike 6-6 301 rsJr
OG Nick Buchanan 6-2 301 rsSo
OT Stone Forsythe 6-7 329 rsFr
-----
OG/DT Tadarrell Slaton 6-4 349 Fr
OT Kadeem Telfort 6-6 318 Fr
OT T.J. Moore 6-6 290 Fr
==========

Go ahead and blitz the passer a bunch, and we'll introduce you to 5 top quality SEC RB's.
 
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teams that blitz us kill our qb and they look like driskel never seeing it coming and getting drilled while they throw it, or like Appleby against Bama and Iowa when they blitzed and getting his back broken... Blitzing us should be automatic if you are a smart DC, we have been miserable against blitzes for about a decade..
 
teams that blitz us kill our qb and they look like driskel never seeing it coming and getting drilled while they throw it, or like Appleby against Bama and Iowa when they blitzed and getting his back broken... Blitzing us should be automatic if you are a smart DC, we have been miserable against blitzes for about a decade..

Yep and that is what scares me about this game. I am surprised teams don't blitz us more than they do. I am convinced LDR would throw a bunch of picks in that situation with how he likes to throw weak stuff off his back foot when pressured. Franks its hard to say for sure but I just have the feeling he might revert to his form coming out of high school if he faced constant pressure. If Zaire doesn't get the start I am almost resigned to some bad stuff happening early with how blitz crazy that Michigan defensive coordinator is.
 
LT Martez Ivey 6-5 305 Jr - 2X All SEC - 5 Star Parade AA

OC T.J. McCoy 6-1 308 rsSO - Began the season as a #3, but was forced in after 1 & 2 went down injured. He started the rest of the way and played so well that the other 2 never won back the job. He is now the 2017 projected starter. Nasty!

RT Jawaan Taylor 6-5 340 So - Fr All SEC & Fr All American

And in between those 3 starters are 2 pretty decent OG's, depending on who they settle in on at the guard spots.

RG Antonio Riles 6-4 313 rsJr
RG Tyler Jordan 6-4 309 Jr
-----
LG Kavaris Harkless 6-5 310 rsJr
LG/C Brett Heggie 6-3 317 rsFr

With the best OL size and depth that they've had in years:
OT Ricardo Benalcazar 6-7 352 Sr
RT/RG Fred Johnson 6-6 311 Jr
OT/OG Andrew Mike 6-6 301 rsJr
OG Nick Buchanan 6-2 301 rsSo
OT Stone Forsythe 6-7 329 rsFr
-----
OG/DT Tadarrell Slaton 6-4 349 Fr
OT Kadeem Telfort 6-6 318 Fr
OT T.J. Moore 6-6 290 Fr
==========

Go ahead and blitz the passer a bunch, and we'll introduce you to 5 top quality SEC RB's.

I'm not Nostradamus and I do not know how the game will play out, just pointing out Michigan has one of the most talented front 7s in the country and perhaps the best DC in the country. They lost starters in name from last year, but return a bunch of guys that played a lot and played at a very high level. Biggest concern to Michigan's D is how the young talented corners play and depth in the front 7 is untested. I'll be surprised if Florida scores 20 points in the game.
 
I'm not Nostradamus and I do not know how the game will play out, just pointing out Michigan has one of the most talented front 7s in the country and perhaps the best DC in the country. They lost starters in name from last year, but return a bunch of guys that played a lot and played at a very high level. Biggest concern to Michigan's D is how the young talented corners play and depth in the front 7 is untested. I'll be surprised if Florida scores 20 points in the game.

So you think the young Viper and LB will hold up with no problem? I will give you the D line is probably going to be good right off the bat but the other parts of the defense should have some growing pains. How good are your returning LBs that started last season?
 
So you think the young Viper and LB will hold up with no problem? I will give you the D line is probably going to be good right off the bat but the other parts of the defense should have some growing pains. How good are your returning LBs that started last season?

McCray was our best LB last year (if you call Peppers a Viper and not a LB) and as a 5th year senior I assume he'll be pretty darn good again. Bush was very good in limited play as a true freshman (outstanding on special teams) and was great in spring practice. Hudson at the Viper should be dominant. He was a terror on special teams and is going to a position that fits him to a T. He also drew rave reviews from the coaches in spring practice.

Don Brown got Boston College to be dominant on defense with mediocre talent. Now he's got elite talent to work with and it's staggering to watch. I'll be shocked if Michigan is worse than top 10 nationally in most major defensive categories.

Now the young corners are definitely a concern, because although all former top 250 recruits, they just haven't had the major game experience to make you feel at ease with them getting isolated on elite WRs over and over.
 
McCray was our best LB last year (if you call Peppers a Viper and not a LB) and as a 5th year senior I assume he'll be pretty darn good again. Bush was very good in limited play as a true freshman (outstanding on special teams) and was great in spring practice. Hudson at the Viper should be dominant. He was a terror on special teams and is going to a position that fits him to a T. He also drew rave reviews from the coaches in spring practice.

Don Brown got Boston College to be dominant on defense with mediocre talent. Now he's got elite talent to work with and it's staggering to watch. I'll be shocked if Michigan is worse than top 10 nationally in most major defensive categories.

Now the young corners are definitely a concern, because although all former top 250 recruits, they just haven't had the major game experience to make you feel at ease with them getting isolated on elite WRs over and over.

McCray does look decent. You never know with the other 2 until they are starters however.

Edit: I watched some of the running plays of the Michigan spring game and Hudson (Viper) looked useless almost when it came to assisting there. He was either late as heck to every play or getting pushed around easily. I hope our coaches run right in his direction most of the time he is in the game. He is undersized big time at 205 lbs. to be playing a hybrid LB/Safety position right now.
 
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Edit: I watched some of the running plays of the Michigan spring game and Hudson (Viper) looked useless almost when it came to assisting there. He was either late as heck to every play or getting pushed around easily.

You seem to have a different take than most...

"VIPER Khaleke Hudson. The hype here isn't going to slow one bit after today. Hudson was everywhere on defense, looking like the heavy-hitting player we expected against the run and proving equally formidable in coverage, where he broke up a couple passes and nearly came up with an interception. As is his wont, he came inches away from a blocked punt, too."

..........

"I said in the spring game preview I didn't want Khaleke Hudson to end someone but if there was a walk-on or band member or random civilian who would volunteer to get in a car crash they would be remembered. John O'Korn is none of those; he will be remembered nonetheless.

Hudson also picked up a PBU and a sack in his time on the field and looked sufficiently Peppers-esque"



Now if you can get him stuck between the tackles taking on guards and tackles, well then you can do some damage against him. But Viper is the player that lines up on the slot WR and is the edge run defender/blitzer/cover guy. He's almost never going to end up playing in close to the line. When offenses go big, he'll come off the field so Michigan can get a more traditional running stuff SLB on the field. But against what is essentially a normal 3 WR set in CFB these days, good luck ever getting an OL matched up on him when there are so many DL that can destroy single blocking.

While he is only 205 lbs or so, it's all muscle and he hits hard.

DDMFKrQXsAIVmyD.jpg
 
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You seem to have a different take than most...

"VIPER Khaleke Hudson. The hype here isn't going to slow one bit after today. Hudson was everywhere on defense, looking like the heavy-hitting player we expected against the run and proving equally formidable in coverage, where he broke up a couple passes and nearly came up with an interception. As is his wont, he came inches away from a blocked punt, too."

..........

"I said in the spring game preview I didn't want Khaleke Hudson to end someone but if there was a walk-on or band member or random civilian who would volunteer to get in a car crash they would be remembered. John O'Korn is none of those; he will be remembered nonetheless.

Hudson also picked up a PBU and a sack in his time on the field and looked sufficiently Peppers-esque"



Now if you can get him stuck between the tackles taking on guards and tackles, well then you can do some damage against him. But Viper is the player that lines up on the slot WR and is the edge run defender/blitzer/cover guy. He's almost never going to end up playing in close to the line. When offenses go big, he'll come off the field so Michigan can get a more traditional running stuff SLB on the field. But against what is essentially a normal 3 WR set in CFB these days, good luck ever getting an OL matched up on him when there are so many DL that can destroy single blocking.

While he is only 205 lbs or so, it's all muscle and he hits hard.


Go watch "all running plays Michigan spring game" on youtube and get back with me. Hudson was nothing like Peppers against the run and undersized it looked like for that role. He was late reacting many times also it appeared. I guess that 10 pounds makes a huge difference or Hudson just was bad that game against the run.
 
I see Don Brown says Gary is the best DE he has ever seen in college going into this season. He also has no problem saying the combo of Gary and Hurst will be a 2 man wrecking crew against opposing offenses. Pretty big words but I guess we will see pretty soon.
 
I'm not Nostradamus and I do not know how the game will play out, just pointing out Michigan has one of the most talented front 7s in the country and perhaps the best DC in the country. They lost starters in name from last year, but return a bunch of guys that played a lot and played at a very high level. Biggest concern to Michigan's D is how the young talented corners play and depth in the front 7 is untested. I'll be surprised if Florida scores 20 points in the game.

I agree that none of us 'knows' how that game is going to go. On any Saturday,,,, however.... :cool:

2016
W - UF 30 - 3 Iowa (-27) (UF with the #2 QB & 0 starting LB'ers)
L -- MI 13 - 14 Iowa (+1)


According to the NCAA Stats page:

2016 Total Defense
1. Michigan - Yds/Play 4.21
5. Florida ---- Yds/Play 4.67
Both lost defensive players off those 2016 squads.

As to DC's, I'd put the Gators new DC Randy Shannon up against anyone else in the Nation. The Gator's 2016 DC (Collins) is now the new HC at Temple, moving Shannon up from LB'ers/Asst HC to DC.

August/Fall practice has not even started yet, so starters and depth have not been determined. These are just my own guesses as to who might be the 1-2's on the DL for UF.

DT/NT Khairi Clark 6-2 319 rsJr
DT/NT Tedarrell Slaton 6-4 349 Fr

DT/DE Taven Bryan 6-5 300 rsJr
DT/DE Elijah Conliffe 6-4 312 Fr

DE CeCe Jefferson 6-1 261 (#2 DE)
DE Zachary Carter 6-3 263 Fr (#3 DE)

DE Jabari Zuniga 6-3 245 rsSo (All SEC, led team in Sacks)
DE Antonneous Clayton 6-3 250 So (#2 DE)

How is your own QB going to hold up vs an SEC pass rush?
2016 Passing Defense
Michigan - 142.5 yds/gm
Florida ---- 148.5 yds/gm


MLB David Reese 6-0 244 So (replaced 1st Rnd J.Davis in 2016)
OLB Kylan Johnson 6-1 231 rsSo (replaced NFL A.Anzalone in 2016)
OLB Vosean Joseph 6-1 226 (tFr started in the Bowl vs Iowa)
~ Those 3 LB'ers were a major part in holding Iowa to a FG in the Outback Bowl

The Gator's secondary is not a weak point behind the front 7.

(putting 6 DB's into the NFL over the last 2 seasons is not a problem for UF, it's just the yearly 'par for the course' at DB-U) ;)

CB Duke Dawson 5-11 208 Sr - 2016 Led the team in PBU's
CB Chauncey Gardener 5-11 204 So - Outback Bowl MVP

SS Marcell Harris 6-1 211 rsSr - 2016 Led the team in tackles
FS Nick Washington 6-0 197 rsSr- HS starter at FS since 8th grade.

Apparently, sending 7 defenders from the 2016 team to the NFL, is not a big deal for UF. :)
 
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As to DC's, I'd put the Gators new DC Randy Shannon up against anyone else in the Nation. The Gator's 2016 DC (Collins) is now the new HC at Temple, moving Shannon up from LB'ers/Asst HC to DC.

Don Brown lead Michigan to the #2 rank in S&P+ defensively last season. In 2015, he lead Boston College to the #2 rank in S&P+. S&P only goes back to 2005 since when Shannon was at Miami, but he's only been associated with a top 10 defense 3 times in that time frame despite having a ton of talent to work with and his best finish ever was #4 last season with the Gators. I don't think there is much of any argument for him to be the best DC in the country, though he is certainly good. The argument for Brown is the outstanding success he had at smaller schools with lesser talent. Last season it was nice to see that translate to total domination with top tier talent which is what you'd hope if he's really that good. Will be fun to watch this season what he can do with a young but talented defense.
 
I don't know anything about Don Brown's history, nor do I care enough to go look it up. I do have the results at my finger tips though, and that's good enough for me for now.

Your idea of Total Domination is a bit different than mine is. o_O

1st off, did Mich even win their own division of the overall weak Big10/12? :rolleyes:

Mich only played 6 terams with winning records in 2016, and went 3-3 against them.

They held a pitiful 3-9 MichSt to 23 pts.
Lost to 8-5 Iowa while giving up 14 pts.
Lost to tOSU giving up 30 pts.
Lost to FSU giving up 33 pts

They had a decent season for sure, but Total Domination is a weak joke imo.:confused:

You can make whatever you like of the Gator DC's coaching history.
http://floridagators.com/coaches.aspx?rc=654&path=football
 
I don't know anything about Don Brown's history, nor do I care enough to go look it up. I do have the results at my finger tips though, and that's good enough for me for now.

Your idea of Total Domination is a bit different than mine is. o_O

1st off, did Mich even win their own division of the overall weak Big10/12? :rolleyes:

Mich only played 6 terams with winning records in 2016, and went 3-3 against them.

They held a pitiful 3-9 MichSt to 23 pts.
Lost to 8-5 Iowa while giving up 14 pts.
Lost to tOSU giving up 30 pts.
Lost to FSU giving up 33 pts

They had a decent season for sure, but Total Domination is a weak joke imo.:confused:

You can make whatever you like of the Gator DC's coaching history.
http://floridagators.com/coaches.aspx?rc=654&path=football

JHC, I hate Michigan but its OWN WEAK division????? You just sound stupid. PSU, tOSU and MeatChicken. We din't win that division last year, hell we don't finish second. You just sound like an idiot acting like the SECe is some kind of elite division. I believe it was the second worst division in a P5 conference last year. Damn, it never ends with you
 
Don Brown lead Michigan to the #2 rank in S&P+ defensively last season. In 2015, he lead Boston College to the #2 rank in S&P+. S&P only goes back to 2005 since when Shannon was at Miami, but he's only been associated with a top 10 defense 3 times in that time frame despite having a ton of talent to work with and his best finish ever was #4 last season with the Gators. I don't think there is much of any argument for him to be the best DC in the country, though he is certainly good. The argument for Brown is the outstanding success he had at smaller schools with lesser talent. Last season it was nice to see that translate to total domination with top tier talent which is what you'd hope if he's really that good. Will be fun to watch this season what he can do with a young but talented defense.

Just looked at those numbers - Michigan does create a lot of havoc according to those numbers. I can see that with how Brown blitzes so much. Brown is a little arrogant acting in his interviews when it comes to talking about his players. Not really sure how this game will go but I do believe your front 7 will show up and make things tough for us.
 
JHC, I hate Michigan but its OWN WEAK division????? You just sound stupid. PSU, tOSU and MeatChicken. We din't win that division last year, hell we don't finish second. You just sound like an idiot acting like the SECe is some kind of elite division. I believe it was the second worst division in a P5 conference last year. Damn, it never ends with you

Thanks Michi-moron for your genius evaluation of my postings. I always wait around for you to come in and get me back on track whenever I happen to go off the rails, which is actually every single time.... :rolleyes:

Since you bring them up, I looked, and you're obviously 100% correct in your own speculations and opinions,,, as always. o_O

8-5 Pitt 42 - 39 PSU
8-5 Pitt 43 - 42 Clem

tOSU 00 - 31 Clemson
Bama 31 - 35 Clemson

LSU 14 - 16 Wis
LSU 10 - 16 Florida

Michigan - 13 - 14 Iowa
Florida ---- 30 - 03 Iowa

So I'm glad that you could set me straight on what Total Domination by the Mich-D means too.
 
Thanks Michi-moron for your genius evaluation of my postings. I always wait around for you to come in and get me back on track whenever I happen to go off the rails, which is actually every single time.... :rolleyes:

Since you bring them up, I looked, and you're obviously 100% correct in your own speculations and opinions,,, as always. o_O

8-5 Pitt 42 - 39 PSU
8-5 Pitt 43 - 42 Clem

tOSU 00 - 31 Clemson
Bama 31 - 35 Clemson

LSU 14 - 16 Wis
LSU 10 - 16 Florida

Michigan - 13 - 14 Iowa
Florida ---- 30 - 03 Iowa

So I'm glad that you could set me straight on what Total Domination by the Mich-D means too.

Michi-moron is some of your weaker material when it comes to nicknames.

And that's saying something.
 
blockm2,

What do Michigan fans think of this matchup? Are many of them confident this will be a win for Michigan due to our problems on offense the past few years?
 
My HOPE is that with over 8 months to prepare, our offensive coaches will come up with a few plays designed to catch Michigan being overly aggressive, AND that we will be smart enough to let them become overly aggressive before we use them.

Again, assuming our offensive coaches have two brain cells to rub together, their pass rush should be no problem. Florida has had tons of elite pass rushers, yet we always seem to play multiple teams early in the year that have a game plan designed to blunt the pass rush. Short routes, dump passes, etc. I've watched our defense dominate the opponents O-line only to watch the ball get out of the backfield before they can get near the QB. I would hope we would be able to do something similar. Also, if their D line is that pass rush oriented, maybe we will be able to run the ball a little? Wishful thinking, I know.

On the flip side, I actually think it helps us having a new DC. We kept the defensive staff intact, kept the same basic playbook, but a different guy calling the plays means different tendencies, which Michigan won't know. The Iowa game is no help, we blew them out, which always changes the calls. So Michigan won't really know what we plan to do defensively, but we have lots of film of them in tight games to know what they are going to do.

As I said, I am hinging our hopes on our offensive staff. I should feel confident, but sadly, I do not.
 
My HOPE is that with over 8 months to prepare, our offensive coaches will come up with a few plays designed to catch Michigan being overly aggressive, AND that we will be smart enough to let them become overly aggressive before we use them.

Again, assuming our offensive coaches have two brain cells to rub together, their pass rush should be no problem. Florida has had tons of elite pass rushers, yet we always seem to play multiple teams early in the year that have a game plan designed to blunt the pass rush. Short routes, dump passes, etc. I've watched our defense dominate the opponents O-line only to watch the ball get out of the backfield before they can get near the QB. I would hope we would be able to do something similar. Also, if their D line is that pass rush oriented, maybe we will be able to run the ball a little? Wishful thinking, I know.

On the flip side, I actually think it helps us having a new DC. We kept the defensive staff intact, kept the same basic playbook, but a different guy calling the plays means different tendencies, which Michigan won't know. The Iowa game is no help, we blew them out, which always changes the calls. So Michigan won't really know what we plan to do defensively, but we have lots of film of them in tight games to know what they are going to do.

As I said, I am hinging our hopes on our offensive staff. I should feel confident, but sadly, I do not.

I am not real confident either. I do think the prep time favors us some and getting the game early against a rather young defense but that coach besides blitzing a lot is pretty good at disguising it sometimes where he has the extra guys back off right at the snap and the confused QB ends up throwing into traffic and getting picked.

I am wondering how Scarlett will fair against them. With the extra guys I am sure they are going to stop him for hardly any gain sometimes but I wonder if he can get loose like Cook did on them a few times. My guess is it won't be the same as it was with Cook because he doesn't have the football speed Cook does.
 
I am not real confident either. I do think the prep time favors us some and getting the game early against a rather young defense but that coach besides blitzing a lot is pretty good at disguising it sometimes where he has the extra guys back off right at the snap and the confused QB ends up throwing into traffic and getting picked.

I am wondering how Scarlett will fair against them. With the extra guys I am sure they are going to stop him for hardly any gain sometimes but I wonder if he can get loose like Cook did on them a few times. My guess is it won't be the same as it was with Cook because he doesn't have the football speed Cook does.

I hear you, but I think with so many new starters they won't have jelled as a unit sufficiently to be able to pull off feints consistently.
 
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