EDITORIAL: Guns aren't the problem? The data disagree

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https://www.yahoo.com/news/editorial-guns-arent-problem-data-124500227.html
EDITORIAL: Guns aren't the problem? The data disagree
The Dominion Post, Morgantown, W.Va.
Thu, July 7, 2022 at 8:45 AM·3 min read



Jul. 7—On Sunday, July 3, a gunman walked into a mall and opened fire. Armed with one rifle and one pistol, the 22-year-old killed three people and wounded (to varying degrees) 30 more.

On Monday, July 4, a gunman climbed onto a rooftop and opened fire on a Fourth of July parade. Armed with a semiautomatic rifle (and another in the car), the 21-year-old unloaded two 30-round magazines and most of a third into the crowd below, firing roughly 83 bullets. He killed seven people and injured a couple dozen more.

But that's mostly where the similarities end.

The first incident happened in Copenhagen, Denmark. It was their first mass shooting since a 2015 terror attack.


The second happened in Highland Park, Ill. It was, at least, America's third mass shooting in less than two months. According to the Gun Violence Archive, it was the 15th mass shooting with four or more fatalities since the start of 2022.

The only other similarity between the two shootings is both assailants were known to officials. The Highland shooter had previously made threats to harm himself and family members. The Copenhagen shooter was familiar to mental health providers, but officials didn't release further information.

These incidents are not examples of gun laws failing, as some will say. Rather, they show what happens when gun laws are not properly applied and enforced. The Highland shooter's father sponsored his application so he could buy the guns ; the Copenhagen shooter could not legally own the weapons he used and it's not yet known how he got them.

As one Copenhagen resident said of the July 3 shooting: "It reminds you of the mass shootings you see in the States. This is Denmark, these things don't happen here."

The data show why. Because in Denmark, like much of Europe, guns are more carefully regulated. Specifically in Denmark, semiautomatic assault-style firearms and handguns require special authorization. Automatic weapons are totally banned. Someone who wishes to carry a firearm must pass a background check that includes criminal and mental health records. You must have a license to own and carry firearms ; to get a license, you must prove a legitimate reason for possessing a gun, such as hunting or target practice.

Denmark is fairly permissive compared to some of its neighbors. Germany's regulations are similar to Denmark's, but background checks include extremist affiliations, criminal, mental health and addiction records. Germany also requires training to obtain a license and limits firearms to one per license. The United Kingdom is even stricter: private possession of automatic guns, semiautomatic assault-style rifles and handguns is prohibited. Individuals can have long guns or shotguns, if they can establish a reason for needing one, pass a background check that examines criminal, mental health and addiction records and must re-apply and re-qualify for their license every five years.

In 2016, a year for which there is data for all four countries, Denmark had fewer than 10 guns per 100 people ; the United Kingdom had 5 ; Germany had 32 ; and the U.S. had 120. , Denmark experienced 60 total firearms deaths (1 per 100, 000 people); the U.K. had 107 (0.17 per 100, 000); Germany had 831 (1 per 100, 000); and the U.S. had 38, 658 (12 per 100, 000).

Tell us again that guns—and unfettered access to them—aren't the problem.
 

IrishPokerDog

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First we have to recognize that cars and sugar kill far more people than guns do by huge margins. It’s obviously the fault of sugar and food for people becoming obese. Let’s federally regulate sugar so that there’s a list of people and Industries promulgating the obesity crisis and hold them accountable. Its a health and safety issue......and it’s for the children
 

NavigatorII

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Japan, who has some of the strictest gun controls in the world, just lost their prime minister to a homemade gun. Yeah, guns are the problem? :rolleyes:
62c7ef658045920019ae266c


giphy.gif
 

RayGravesGhost

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First we have to recognize that cars and sugar kill far more people than guns do by huge margins. It’s obviously the fault of sugar and food for people becoming obese. Let’s federally regulate sugar so that there’s a list of people and Industries promulgating the obesity crisis and hold them accountable. Its a health and safety issue......and it’s for the children

You don't know sugar is federally regulated? SMH
 

RayGravesGhost

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Japan, who has some of the strictest gun controls in the world, just lost their prime minister to a homemade gun. Yeah, guns are the problem? :rolleyes:

Did someone say stricter gun control would eliminate ALL gun deaths?

Japan has strict gun control
They also have far less gun deaths than the US

So what's your point?
 

BayouGator1995

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WOW! It figures how you just buy into the lies of MSM. You believe the laughable lies and semantics of "gun violence", as the MSDNC crowd puts it. Watching you post these BS articles is prime-time comedy.
 
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First we have to recognize that cars and sugar kill far more people than guns do by huge margins. It’s obviously the fault of sugar and food for people becoming obese. Let’s federally regulate sugar so that there’s a list of people and Industries promulgating the obesity crisis and hold them accountable. Its a health and safety issue......and it’s for the children
Ban sugar “for the children!”
obese-child-uk-2013-D8PYCC.jpg
 

Capt Ron 1

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Did someone say stricter gun control would eliminate ALL gun deaths?

Japan has strict gun control
They also have far less gun deaths than the US

So what's your point?
I have a challenge for you, or any other lil commie that is in favor of gun control. If you can successfully show ME how taking MY AR15 away will lesson gun violence...I will give it to you. THEN, when you cannot(because you can't), I will EDUCATE you AGAIN on what needs to happen. Just a heads up, I have owned and carried weapons almost my whole life...and I am 60. ZERO gun crimes...actually ZERO any crimes. We KNOW why you do not want for us to have guns. EVERY SINGLE one of us are VERY prepared for that day...just in case. Hopefully it never will. But not many of us are well armed to just hunt. (game)
 

BSC911

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I just saw where Japan has like 10 gun deaths a year with tight controls. OP should just say he doesn't care.
 

Capt Ron 1

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I just saw where Japan has like 10 gun deaths a year with tight controls. OP should just say he doesn't care.
I give ZERO ***** about what happens ANYWHERE other than the USA. Japan is a GREAT example for an idiot to bring up about gun control...ESPECIALLY since the BIGGEST reason Japan never tried to invade our mainland was because they feared how many people were gun owners here. Yamamoto knew that there would be a gun "behind every blade of grass.
 

BamaFan1137

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I just saw where Japan has like 10 gun deaths a year with tight controls. OP should just say he doesn't care.

Yes or no....do you truly believe that guns are the problem?

If we magically got rid of guns, do you think our murder rate would be equivalent to Japan's?
 

Orangeclad

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How does that tight control work in NY, Chicago, Minneapolis, SF and all of thos eliberal ****holes, with lib leadership?
Laws, laws laws. These freakin gun laws ain't worth s**t. Criminals don't follow laws. That's why they are called criminals. Let's put an assault rifle ban in Chicago and see what that does. Oh, they already have one. You mean criminals find other guns to kill people? Who knew. Let's put more red flag laws into play. There were enough red flags in Highland Park to supply all the matadors in Spain. You mean that doesn't work either?
Those gosh darn criminals just won't follow the law.
 

Capt Ron 1

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Laws, laws laws. These freakin gun laws ain't worth s**t. Criminals don't follow laws. That's why they are called criminals. Let's put an assault rifle ban in Chicago and see what that does. Oh, they already have one. You mean criminals find other guns to kill people? Who knew. Let's put more red flag laws into play. There were enough red flags in Highland Park to supply all the matadors in Spain. You mean that doesn't work either?
Those gosh darn criminals just won't follow the law.
Only a true idiot would believe gun confiscation helps. We know what their agenda is...and we will NEVER, EVER submit to their un Constitutional ways
 

BSC911

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Yes or no....do you truly believe that guns are the problem?

If we magically got rid of guns, do you think our murder rate would be equivalent to Japan's?
I love how you word the last question.

Part of the problem, yes, of course. Equivalent to Japan, probably not, but certainly lower than it is today.

Guns make it easier to kill.
Easy access to guns make it easier to kill.

We can’t and shouldn’t ban all guns, but there is no doubt making them harder to obtain would reduce the death rate. Do you disagree?
 

NavigatorII

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Guns make it easier to kill.
Easy access to guns make it easier to kill.
We can’t and shouldn’t ban all guns, but there is no doubt making them harder to obtain would reduce the death rate. Do you disagree?
Cars and planes make it easier to travel.
Easy access to cars and planes make it easier to travel.
Cars and planes are an innovation that makes life better in most cases.
If we make them harder to obtain, will we reduce their death rate?
Guns are the great equalizer in insuring protection and liberty.
SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED


4yln9apxyvt51.jpg
 
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kjfreeze

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First we have to recognize that cars and sugar kill far more people than guns do by huge margins. It’s obviously the fault of sugar and food for people becoming obese. Let’s federally regulate sugar so that there’s a list of people and Industries promulgating the obesity crisis and hold them accountable. Its a health and safety issue......and it’s for the children
BINGO!

How many deaths occur daily by prescription drugs and automobile accidents? Not sure anyone will ever regulate drug deaths because that's within the elitist's money system. But they've tried to make it safer to drive by implementing regulation of seat belt laws. Even cars, I believe, have to have certain safety standards met. However, we don't see anyone YET calling for all of our transportation to go to bus, train, bicycle, walking... (not for safety's concern but for green loons who want to save the planet.)
 

kjfreeze

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I love how you word the last question.

Part of the problem, yes, of course. Equivalent to Japan, probably not, but certainly lower than it is today.

Guns make it easier to kill.
Easy access to guns make it easier to kill.

We can’t and shouldn’t ban all guns, but there is no doubt making them harder to obtain would reduce the death rate. Do you disagree?
Yes, it can make them harder to obtain simply because they may have to travel down a couple more illegal roads to obtain those "illegal" guns, and then they'll be even more pissed off and kill even more people with that "illegal" gun.
 

NavigatorII

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Yes, it can make them harder to obtain simply because they may have to travel down a couple more illegal roads to obtain those "illegal" guns, and then they'll be even more pissed off and kill even more people with that "illegal" gun.
The war on guns will go just as poorly as the war on drugs has. The difference here is, guns don't kill responsible owners, as they aren't ingesting their own lead. If the lunatics get their way, only criminals will possess guns. And that's not going to go well for the Deep State.
 
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BSC911

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Yes, it can make them harder to obtain simply because they may have to travel down a couple more illegal roads to obtain those "illegal" guns, and then they'll be even more pissed off and kill even more people with that "illegal" gun.
Yep, you can never eliminate the illegal Acquisition of guns. Just make them harder to obtain. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do it. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Most of the recent mass murders have come from legally purchased guns.
 

BSC911

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BINGO!

How many deaths occur daily by prescription drugs and automobile accidents? Not sure anyone will ever regulate drug deaths because that's within the elitist's money system. But they've tried to make it safer to drive by implementing regulation of seat belt laws. Even cars, I believe, have to have certain safety standards met. However, we don't see anyone YET calling for all of our transportation to go to bus, train, bicycle, walking... (not for safety's concern but for green loons who want to save the planet.)
Derp. Such a strawman. No one (or very few) are suggesting eliminating all guns.

Prescription drugs have many hurdles to obtain. That doesn’t mean there are ways around it, but surely you aren’t suggesting we make all opioids available to anyone who wants them. Se above post.
 

BamaFan1137

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I love how you word the last question.

Part of the problem, yes, of course. Equivalent to Japan, probably not, but certainly lower than it is today.

Guns make it easier to kill.
Easy access to guns make it easier to kill.

We have a cultural problem. That is why our murder rate wouldn't look like Japan's if we got rid of all the guns.


We can’t and shouldn’t ban all guns, but there is no doubt making them harder to obtain would reduce the death rate. Do you disagree?

If we made them harder to obtain, no, I'm absolutely not convinced that the death rate due to guns would be reduced.

First off, the VAST majority of gun deaths are suicides.

Next, if you simply made some or all guns harder to obtain, we still have a lot of guns on the street today. Very little, if anything, would change.

Finally, we have several gun laws today that either don't work or we're simply not enforcing. So, assuming that your proposal would work (which I wholeheartedly don't believe it would), why would I assume this law would be any different?

Laws that defy the 2A are about control, full stop.
 

BamaFan1137

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I love how you word the last question.

The "magically" part?

I used that word because I believe that it would require some type of magic to get that done, 😂.

If not, you're going to have to kill a large percentage of our citizens, and get a CRAP LOAD of our law enforcement killed in the process, to get that done.

Evoking magic, given the above, seems more reasonable. I can assure you that I will never be a part of disarming the public en mass. Also, I swore to uphold the constitution and that would be in direct violation of it.
 

BamaFan1137

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Yep, you can never eliminate the illegal Acquisition of guns. Just make them harder to obtain. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do it. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Most of the recent mass murders have come from legally purchased guns.

We've also had legal gun owners stop illegal gun owners from committing gun crimes. The legal gun owners accomplished that by using their legal guns.

By your own admission, you would be making things harder for law abiding citizens...but not harder for the criminals. The upside to your proposal is very limited. And we've barely scratched the surface on the downside.

You have a constitutional guarantee that you can own a gun even if you have no intent to use it to stop bad guys from doing bad things btw. It's simply your right.
 

BamaFan1137

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No one (or very few) are suggesting eliminating all guns

That's simply not true. But even if it was the goal would be for incrementalism.

This is about control BSC. Look at the laws the NY governor is imposing (or attempting to impose) in the name of gun control. It's bizarre...and it's Un-American. It's entirely authoritarian.
 
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BSC911

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We've also had legal gun owners stop illegal gun owners from committing gun crimes. The legal gun owners accomplished that by using their legal guns.

By your own admission, you would be making things harder for law abiding citizens...but not harder for the criminals. The upside to your proposal is very limited. And we've barely scratched the surface on the downside.

You have a constitutional guarantee that you can own a gun even if you have no intent to use it to stop bad guys from doing bad things btw. It's simply your right.
Of course. Yes, making things slightly harder. Not impossible. Qualified legal gun owners will still be able to obtain them. Quit trying to use the all or nothing argument, which no one is suggesting.

The right to gun ownership has always come with restrictions. It’s just a question of how much.
 

BSC911

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That's simply not true. But even if it was the goal would be for incrementalism.

This is about control BSC. Look at the laws the NY governor is imposing (or attempting to impose) in the name of gun control. It's bizarre...and it's Un-American. It's entirely authoritarian.
Odd coming from a LEO whose job it is to enforce all laws, which by their very definition are authoritarian. I guess we should just let each individual decide what is best for society.

Japans culture is very authoritarian. That’s one of the reasons they have a much lower murder rate.. No, I’m not suggesting we adopt their model.
 

BamaFan1137

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Of course. Yes, making things slightly harder. Not impossible. Qualified legal gun owners will still be able to obtain them. Quit trying to use the all or nothing argument, which no one is suggesting.

The right to gun ownership has always come with restrictions. It’s just a question of how much.

I think the restrictions that we have today are too great and cumbersome. Not on regular handguns btw, they're reasonably simple, but I digress.

What we as a nation need to do is do a better job with our mental health care. If we fix that we fix 99.9999% of these whackos from using guns to kill large numbers of people.

We as a country choose not to recognize our mental health care issues...because it's daunting. And if we do recognize them, we might be forced to do something about it and that scares us. Guns aren't the problem.
 

BamaFan1137

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Odd coming from a LEO whose job it is to enforce all laws, which by their very definition are authoritarian. I guess we should just let each individual decide what is best for society.

Japans culture is very authoritarian. That’s one of the reasons they have a much lower murder rate.. No, I’m not suggesting we adopt their model.

It's not odd at all coming from a LEO.

"Don't tread on me" is a pretty common theme from my profession. That also means that we don't want them treading on you ftr.

I raised my right hand and swore to uphold the constitution. I meant it. That doesn’t mean that people like me want the government to have more control than they currently have.

As a LEO, I don't believe that I need, or should have, more control over you than I currently have. In fact I could make a decent argument that in some areas I need less control than I currently have.
 
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BamaFan1137

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Japans culture is very authoritarian. That’s one of the reasons they have a much lower murder rate.. No, I’m not suggesting we adopt their model.

Their culture since WWII has been very liberal. Liberal in the global sense, not as defined by American politics.

They're not having the same issues we're having because of their family structures and more in-line with one another moral values. They don't have as much internal vitriol. I think that is slowly changing for the worse, however.

Also, the conviction rate for felonies in Japan is literally 99.9%.
 
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BamaFan1137

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Japans culture is very authoritarian.

To your point, this point in particular, judges and prosecutors in Japan can be held liable if they mishandle verdicts, plea's, motions, ect to the detriment of criminal justice.

In this country judges and prosecutors have absolute immunity.

If judges and DA's here had to start worrying about the consequences of their actions, maybe things here would begin to improve as well.

Accountability is a hell of a motivator IMHO.
 
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BSC911

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Their culture since WWII has been very liberal. Liberal in the global sense, not as defined by American politics.

They're not having the same issues we're having because of their family structures and more in-line with one another moral values. They don't have as much internal vitriol. I think that is slowly changing for the worse, however.

Also, the conviction rate for felonies in Japan is literally 99.9%.
And the fact that they aren’t a culture that worships and has easy access to guns.

What part of American culture causes young men to shoot up schools, church’s, and go hunting to kill Hispanics (ElPASO) and black neighborhoods.?
 

NavigatorII

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And the fact that they aren’t a culture that worships and has easy access to guns.

What part of American culture causes young men to shoot up schools, church’s, and go hunting to kill Hispanics (ElPASO) and black neighborhoods.?
Dimtard culture. Read up on Cloward-Piven. Educate yourself.
 
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BamaFan1137

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And the fact that they aren’t a culture that worships and has easy access to guns.

What part of American culture causes young men to shoot up schools, church’s, and go hunting to kill Hispanics (ElPASO) and black neighborhoods.?

You're referring to a VERY small portion of gun deaths in this country.

Interesting that you didn't reference the psychos who targeted white men. Probably an oversight on your part???

But yes, that's the cultural phenomenon that I was referring to...internal, hate-filled vitriol.
 

Capt Ron 1

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Yep, you can never eliminate the illegal Acquisition of guns. Just make them harder to obtain. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do it. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Most of the recent mass murders have come from legally purchased guns
You leave a VERY important detail out. Existing laws SHOULD have stopped almost EVERY one of these purchases...but different people dropped the ball. So taking MY guns away, because some idiot did not follow instructions will not cut it. Anyway...NO ONE will EVER give their guns up...so this is a non issue
 

Capt Ron 1

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Odd coming from a LEO whose job it is to enforce all laws, which by their very definition are authoritarian. I guess we should just let each individual decide what is best for society.

Japans culture is very authoritarian. That’s one of the reasons they have a much lower murder rate.. No, I’m not suggesting we adopt their model.
One thing EVERY lefty does NOT understand...is where these laws come from. You CANNOT violate the Constitution of the United States of America to impose woke BS laws that you BELIVE should happen.